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    Obfuscatio: philosopher at largeNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 10:17am

    This is a horrible tragedy. No question.

    [Puts on flame suit.]

    The following comment is not about this particular incident, nor reportage of same.

    Honest question: Is this victim exhoneration? Y’know... the opposite of victim blaming. Is this the homicide equivalent of saying that a rape victim was modestly dressed?

    Do her occupation, religious convictions, morals, ethics, standing in the community, or the love for her family really change the fact that she didn’t deserve to be murdered, let alone assaulted? If she had been homeless, unemployed, mentally ill, and had addiciton problems, or any combination thereof, would it be any less tragic?

    Or simply less newsworthy?

    Why is there always a measure of verification of the victim in stories like this? Would the tragedy be lessened if it was discovered she was a bad mother? Not in my eyes. Would it be fair to say that some of the Vegas shooting victims were not especially nice people? Does that change the fact that they did not deserve to get injured or killed? I don’t think so.

    ... and I’m not even a Christian. (Or a follower of any other organized religion, before you get on your high, high horse.)

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      Dinosaurs and Nachos, Very Legal and Very Cool!Obfuscatio: philosopher at large
      11/20/18 10:40am

      Or maybe we should remember the dead and celebrate the lives they lived.

      Maybe that. 

      Reply
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      SwollenColonObfuscatio: philosopher at large
      11/20/18 10:55am

      Of course, it’s called “karma”. Bad people getting murdered is fine by me. The problem with this site is that the default stance is that people “didn’t deserve to be murdered”, esp. if at the hands of police. It’s always “they were just turning their life around”, “they got in with a bad crowd” or “they got the wrong person”. Mind you, this is usually after they’ve been fleeing the scene of a crime, pointed a gun at cops or assaulting one.

      This girl, by every measure was the complete opposite which is why it is all the more disheartening.

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    Rewind4ThatBehindNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 12:14pm

    Men killing women over uncomfortable feelings of loss and fear steeped in misogyny and patriarchy is a pandemic.

    That’s it. My gender can’t keep sweeping this under the rug and talking like “that’s just how it is”. Nah. We can fix that.

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      Von Clyderdale: Exiled from JezebelRewind4ThatBehind
      11/20/18 1:41pm

      For a few years I’ve been joking “deport men” but the more I see stories like this, the more I think “you know, just to be on the safe side... we should probably deport men.”  

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      Thotline Bling: black girl supremacyRewind4ThatBehind
      11/20/18 1:43pm

      <3

      Reply
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    HumboldtGenesisNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 12:18pm

    My heart hurts from this tragedy. When are we as a society going to take a long, hard, honest look at the pathology of men, a pathology that makes them feel entitled to take other people’s lives? Why is it an acceptable norm for men to take their rage, pain, and rejection out on other people? This idea that a man can simply discard a life that is no longer central or important to his — either by his choice, or theirs — is far too commonplace and it’s up to men to change this.

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      selburn6HumboldtGenesis
      11/20/18 1:38pm

      Men are trained and conditioned by a society that teaches them that they are “owed” a woman. That a woman is a thing, a possession that they get to have just because they are men. Sh*t, look at the bible. God made Adam a thing so he would have company.

      If they don’t get a “thing”? See Elliot Rodgers and his ilk.

      If they do get a “thing” and then she leaves him?  See cases like this.

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      SkaOreoHumboldtGenesis
      11/20/18 3:26pm

      It won’t happen because:

      a. too many men in power who rely on toxic masculinity to justify their power

      b. too many men desperately want to fulfill that American dream

      c. people are stupid.

      So people will keep dying. Because This is America.

      Reply
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    MangoMojitoNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 10:22am

    Before she was a doctor, she worked in my hometown of Michigan City as the attendance officer at the high school.  I didn’t know her personally, but a lot of people from my hometown did, and she was, by all accounts, a cheerful, upbeat positive person.  A good person who didn’t deserve this.

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    ftrMDNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 10:20am

    I am so fed up with this. We need an open and honest and intentional conversation about violence against black women.

    The saddest part about this is had an officer not been wounded and had this not happened in a hospital there would be very little news about this.

    Why are black women killed at a disproportionately high rate by their partners? At some point we need to start pointing fingers and taking action within our own communities--speaking up against uncles, dads, brothers, cousins, and friends we know to be aggressive or demeaning to women. SHAME THEM.

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      connoisseur of spiritsftrMD
      11/20/18 12:40pm

      I know no one here wants to confront this, but the reality is that the memes that you let into your brain affect your future attitudes and actions.

      I am horrified that I ever listened to that Snoop song with “Bitches ain’t shit but hoes and tricks, ...”.

      That that shit was ever popular, much less even condoned as some kind of “art”, is INSANE.

      And don’t think for one second that those attitudes put forth in flowing lyrics and to cool beats don’t enter young men’s heads and affect their beings.

      What memes are you repetitiously inculcating into your being?

      It fucking matters. It REALLY fucking matters.

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      jayarftrMD
      11/20/18 1:59pm

      Men are taught to suppress or hide their feelings, taught at church that women are inferior to men’s whims, and that violence is a socially acceptable and logical way to solve a problem.

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    Ugh.Natalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 2:21pm

    NOTES FROM THE GRAYS:

    you can’t just say its a man problem when misandry is on the rise and so is narcissism. Some people hide their ugly under good deeds. You don’t know the people, so why even assume.

    You’re justifying a murder, by indicating that “misandry and narcissism” would be an acceptable justification. Fuck off back to the incel boards, you utter piece of shit.

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      SkaOreoUgh.
      11/20/18 3:27pm

      Let’s not bring up the greys. They’re cancer incarnate.

      Just leave ‘em alone.

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    weapon-a the first try suffers no trollsNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 12:18pm

    Another senseless loss of life apparently because of some asshole couldn’t have what was “his”.

    SMGDH

    Others have put the anger I’m feeling into words much more eloquently than I can at the moment. I’ll just quote the article cause some things really need to be repeated:

    “...I’ll run through the facts again this time, the same ones we always run through. From the CDC:"

    • Non-Hispanic black and American Indian/Alaska Native women experienced the highest rates of homicide (4.4 and 4.3 per 100,000 population, respectively)
    • Over half of all homicides (55.3%) were IPV-related
    • 11.2% of victims of IPV-related homicide experienced some form of violence in the month preceding their deaths; argument and jealousy were common precipitating circumstances
    • Non-Hispanic black women had the highest rate of dying by homicide (4.4 per 100,000)
    • Homicide is one of the leading causes of death for women 44 years old and younger
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      Kariweapon-a the first try suffers no trolls
      11/20/18 10:57pm

      Agreed to an extent. I don’t think it matters what shade of woman you are - I say PEN the MEN who can’t evolve. I think the CDC numbers are shy of actual in these cases of men killing women. A woman will kill you for a betrayal (usually true in some fashion)...A man will kill you for disagreeing with him. That is a HUGE evolutionary difference.

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    Issa TrapNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 10:49am

    This is beyond sad.  I have no words so I will just log off for the day. Take care people.

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    jayarNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 12:04pm

    She likely broke up with him because he was violent, irrational, unpredictable, or a combination of all three.

    Then he killed her anyway.

    Male Antisocial Aggression Disorder. Its a thing.

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      burner'downjayar
      11/20/18 1:58pm

      Nope. He was just an asshole. There’s no need to pathologize assholery.

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      kemperboydjayar
      11/20/18 2:15pm

      This is it. When they ask “Why didn’t she leave?” . This is why women don’t leave and when they don’t leave they might die, when they do leave they might die. Almost like none of it is about the actions of women but the men who abuse them.

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    hammerbuttNatalie Degraffinried
    11/20/18 11:07am

    Sorry can someone tell me what IPV is?

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      StrangerSnackshammerbutt
      11/20/18 12:00pm

      Interpersonal Violence

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      ftrMDStrangerSnacks
      11/20/18 3:50pm

      Intimate Partner Violence. (domestic violence)

      Reply