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    Downton FlabbyIssac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 12:03pm

    Does that mean they are irredeemable?

    Basically yes. People of true good conscience would not be OK with supporting someone who is so clearly lacking a moral compass. Even if it was, on some level, in their self-interest to do so, people who were truly decent wouldn’t throw their support behind someone who so clearly seeks to villainize the powerless and disenfranchised. These people had other choices. They chose to go with the worse of the lot, and for that reason, they are not worth the time and effort being expended to turn them around. If you must talk about them at all, categorize them as what they are and move on.

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      Catboy!!Downton Flabby
      11/20/18 12:17pm

      THANK YOU. Anyone who still supports trump at this point is a monster. There is no sugarcoating it, I don’t care. We don’t need the support of the shitty people. We have the numbers without them. And kissing some nazi’s ass isn’t going to convince them to do the right thing anyway. They’ll just spite vote anyway and lie about it.

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      Mr.DuckSauceDownton Flabby
      11/20/18 1:25pm

      Same, if they aren’t willing to be open minded themselves to not be a piece of shit, they aren’t worth the effort, other people believe that they can convert them but to change any of them from being that confident in their hubris of themselves, saying anything they don’t understand or is opposite of their views won’t give them an epiphany in doing better.

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    Not Enough Day DrinkingIssac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 11:56am

    Does that mean they are irredeemable? That they are forever lost to those of us agitating for more justice, racial and otherwise? But it definitely means they have to do the kind of soul-searching they have yet to commit to.

    Why would they do that? They don’t lose anything by supporting people like Trump, and it makes them feel good (that someone says what they already think), so what would make them soul search for a reason not to feel that way?

    They’re simply not going to, so for all intents and purposes, they are irredeemable.

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      FlamingFeministaNot Enough Day Drinking
      11/21/18 3:59am

      Calling a thing a thing definitely has to be the start! But how do you change such a deeply held belief system? Cuz barring some pumpkin spice plague, whites aren’t going anywhere. We can’t just wish their racist asses away, and demographics alone doesn’t address their power positions in the government they created, so what’s to be done? Truth & Reconciliation Commissions like South Africa seem unlikely to produce soul-searching in the unrepentant or the stubbornly oblivious. And they're still fighting for stolen land!

      I used to think Germany was a beacon of the ability to effectively course-correct - but how much of that was based on fear of loss of Allied financial support? I know national shame played a part, rebuilding has a chastening affect but I really wanna know how the Nazi, the half-supporters and the apathetics’ minds were changed! Yes I do know not everyone changed, the underground neo-Nazis and the current attitudes toward migrants but...guess I should do some research... 

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    iculookinIssac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 2:04pm

    No one gives a fuck why Germans supported Hitler. They give a fuck about all of the damage that Hitler and his Nazi party did with the support of the German people.

    Same thing applies here. Ain’t no way to reconcile this shit. Most White people are racist. We’ve known this for hundreds of years and they continue to prove it with their actions. So why should we call a snake, a cat?

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      Old white guyiculookin
      11/20/18 4:36pm

      Hey, but #NotAllWhitePeople, right????

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      Mr.DuckSauceiculookin
      11/20/18 4:41pm

      White People literally started a race war the affected the whole world.....if that doesn’t prove shit, Idk what them denying fuckers would.

      Them being killed for having white skin? Maybe that should help them to learn something.

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    MisterPigginsIssac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 11:39am

    Sometimes you have to push back to convince somebody they’re being wrong.

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      My KinjaMisterPiggins
      11/20/18 12:36pm

      The Civil Rights Act wasn’t voted on by the general populace. Those in power were forced to chose what was right via riots, marches and displays of non compliance. A threat to the power structure, is a course toward change. 

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      Nick CliniteMisterPiggins
      11/20/18 12:49pm

      Sometimes you just have to realize there’s no hope to convincing somebody is wrong.  Then you have to work around them as the obstacle that they are.

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    VinIssac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 1:27pm

    Moderating their tone won’t help, but there’s no escaping the fact that even many white allies will find some way to be offended by any sort of frank calling out of racists (or even Nazis) because some small part of them identifies with said racist. It’s why you get nonsense like #AllLivesMatter or #BlueLivesMatter, when such things were clearly implied.

    And being frank paints a target on your back in a time when one isn’t even necessary for some of these fucking lunatics (e.g. black church shooting). I think that’s a bigger reality for politicians who moderate their speech, and as someone who isn’t putting their or their families’ necks on the line, I can’t completely criticize when they pull punches.

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    bassguitarheroIssac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 4:46pm

    If Trump is running, then those racist white voters are going to vote for him. So are you really going to be willing to throw away the votes of PoC in order to “try” to win over voters who aren’t coming to your table anyways?

    That’s stupid. And it’s annoying. Basically it’s politicians saying that the POTENTIAL vote of a white person is worth more than the ACTUAL vote of a person of color.

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    FredCee71Issac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 3:38pm

    The saddest person in the world is the one who lets others dictate his/her moments of happiness.

    Fuck appeasing evil, and double fuck those who wish to see/hear/speak no evil but let it thrive. The only thing that’s going to “reform” people like Trump supporters is them receiving more “pain” from his policies than the people they think he’s targeting exclusively.

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    Squib308Issac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 11:54am

    I’m trying to parse what you’re saying, I think I have it - Dems should not moderate calling a racist a racist, or a racist policy racist, because the white folks that would be made ‘uncomfortable’ by doing so, ain’t going to vote in your favor, anyway. As proven by the folks you know & the 2016 election - you did all the work, and they still voted for what sounded best to them. (Whatever BS Trump laid on your state?)

    Just checking, because I might be projecting what _I think_ into your words. (I did read the article you linked to, which I perceive is opposite of what you’re saying - the article is saying ‘tone down talking about race == big W’)

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    mrs oh'pleaseIssac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 12:16pm

    Racists don’t believe that racism is wrong...because racism is just the freedom of a white person to be white. 

    They believe that they are superior & everyone underneath them is supposed to serve them. They don’t believe that minorities are their equal. This one single belief makes them racist...whether they ever call negroes niggers out loud, rape, beat or lynch negroes or not. They choose the latter as a scapegoat to deny that they are racist. Racism is not justifiable but racists always attempt to...so we already know that they don’t believe racism is wrong.

    As long as someone can deny their racism they’ll never admit they are racist. White people created a safe image for themselves that racists only come in white sheets & hoods...as long as they don’t identify with that they’ll let themselves off the hook. Also to protect themselves they also will claim that racism is just a state of mind...pretending that they never act on their racism. They also hide behind freedom of speech & to appease non-racist white people they created hate crime laws...that don’t mean anything if racists won’t ever deem anything racially motivated.

    Trump supporters don’t believe they are wrong. There’s no body of proof that will change their minds as long as they want to be right. As we’ve seen before catching somebody red handed like in all the cell phone video footage of racists with badges murdering innocent black people...the racists always sided with the racists.

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    FlamingFeministaIssac J. Bailey
    11/20/18 4:20pm

    Burn it down! All of it, every time!

    How many years have we refused to call slavery by its name? Minimized its impact and refuted its importance and the reasons for its demise? How many ways have the lingering after-effects been ignored, minimized or denied? The cancer has almost eaten through our collective guts!

    We’re five, six generations out of slavery yet their still gaslighting us that racism is all in our heads because there are “very fine people”!

    I started after the election and have been ramping it up at every opportunity...in every casual conversations with whites everywhere, I’m dropping the truth! “Oh, the racists said xyz today!” “MAGA Christian hypocrites still haven’t reunited the migrant children!”

    Yes, I get a lot of surprised faces and some pushback but I’m ready...with a smile and FACTS! If they’re bold enough to march with tiki torches, I’m bold enough to call them what they are!

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