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    NoelVeigaTim Rogers
    6/05/18 4:26pm

    So... that’s not what a “vertical slice” is in videogames.

    See, games are made in layers, but not like “this stealth mechanic is a layer, this combat mechanic is another layer”. It’s literally stuff like “graphics” are a layer. “Level design” is a layer. “Sound”. “Lighting”. “Progression”.

    So you’ll see what a level designer calls a “white box” version of a level, and it’s literally just boxes serving as placeholders for the layout, and nothing is textured. The texturing thing is gonna come later, when all the whitebox is playtested and approved, because nobody wants to have to do that crap twice.

    The problem with this is... well, you don’t know how the whole thing comes together, because nobody has seen the graphics yet, right? So the people with the greenlight, who are waiting so see if they have a hit, they are not gonna guess based on a bunch of boxes and movement mechanics and gun models from a Unity store resource bin (not sure why this imaginary game is a shooter, but I guess it is) and shooting noises made by a dev from an audio CD he had laying around. Plus you probably need a demo at some point.

    So they’ll ask for a vertical slice, where you don’t do the graphics for the whole thing... but you take this one section and you finish it. You do the graphics, and the sound and the entire experience looks as close to finished as you can make it, so somebody can play a few minutes of the game and it plays just like the rest of the finished product will. That’s your “vertical slice”, the ten minutes of finished game in the middle of a vast ocean of white boxes and broken crap.

    The reason that bit tends to be the best bit in the game is... because somebody picked the best bit to finish. I mean, it makes sense, you’re not gonna polish up a boring corridor in the middle of a level, you’re gonna go for a big scene with all the bells and whistles that really shows off the game. And then you probably add more to it so it can be your press reel and be all over the trailer and whatnot. But the “vertical slice” name is referring to how you didn’t finish all the level design layer before you went ahead and polished the icing.

    Tim probably knows this, but the explanation was a bit misleading, so I couldn’t contain the nerding out and issuing a correction because I’m a nerd. Which is what you get when you make a deep dive on ten minutes of a twenty five year old game, guys. You get nerds.

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      Dominic SnyderNoelVeiga
      6/05/18 5:11pm

      Hmm, interesting that that’s what you got from Tim’s explanation of a vertical slice, ‘cause I don’t think that’s what his explanation communicated at all. “An orchestra of game mechanics, art, narrative systems, level design, pacing, and flow” is pretty much exactly what you described and is certainly an accurate description of a vertical slice. Either way, he definitely does understand the concept, as he’s developed many games over the years.

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      Ka Mai uses a burner cause he hates social mediaNoelVeiga
      6/05/18 5:22pm

      I don’t see the material difference in your description and Tim’s.

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    EnfyTim Rogers
    6/05/18 4:11pm

    Wow, you made this amazingly quickly after I said I didn’t like this game in the “games we feel guilty about not liking” article, I can’t believe you went through all this effort just to spite me :p

    (Joking, in case it wasn’t obvious)

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      DrGregsEnfy
      6/06/18 8:58am

      I am legitimately curious what it is about this game that you do not like. The only thing I do not like about it is how easy it is compared to it’s prior versions. I will def understand if it is not your cup of tea, just would like to hear some constructive criticism of a legitimately well designed game. I read your prior comment that you find it hard to get around but what about it makes it hard to get around to you. I never felt this way while playing it and as a kid was annoyed that it was too easy to know where to go next compared to the original game where I had no idea but soon knew I could go anywhere I wanted as long as I knew how. I really liked that original game and it took me years to get over how much straight forward I felt this one was. When I did I realized how much a better game it was.

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      EnfyDrGregs
      6/06/18 11:53am

       The only thing I do not like about it is how easy it is compared to it’s prior versions.

      I never felt this way while playing it and as a kid was annoyed that it was too easy to know where to go next

      And right off the bat some of the disconnect between our opinions is obvious. “Challenge” isn’t really something important to me, and unless it’s implemented well, it’s just annoying to me. Challenge itself is not a plus to me. I have a few complaints that, based on your comments, you won’t be able to relate to at all, that I won’t list here. It’s been a couple years since I’ve tried playing, so I don’t remember exactly all of the problems I had with it, but one example of it being hard to find your way around was in order to get to one of the dungeons (or otherwise progress in the story), you had to cut down one very specific bush to find a particular portal to the dark world, and I have no idea how on earth I was supposed to figure out to do that. Was I supposed to find a specific NPC who said something about that? Was I just supposed to interact with every possible thing I could interact with? Either way was unclear. And this comes back to what I said about challenge itself not being a plus to me. I don’t think lack of clarity is good game design, at least for a main campaign. If something is supposed to be a puzzle, it should be a clearly defined puzzle, something you can approach logically and with a clear direction, not just by exhausting all possible interactions with the environment.

      It might sound like I dislike exploration, but it’s quite the opposite. I love exploration, but there’s a time and a place for it. I think exploration should be saved for optional content, a reward for looking around off the beaten path. It shouldn’t be hard to find the beaten path. If you want to give someone a challenge reaching a certain point, put some clearly defined puzzles in their path. At least to me, bumbling blindly around until I find the one relevant thing I need to interact with to progress the story isn’t fun, it’s just a waste of time.

      But ultimately, none of that matters. If I enjoyed the rest of the game, I could just use a guide to find my way around, and power through the parts I didn’t like. The simple truth is that I don’t like it because I just don’t like it. There’s no “constructive criticism” I can offer, I just... don’t like it? Like, it’s not like I see it as a good game with flaws that drag it down to the level of me not liking it, I just don’t enjoy anything about it. I’m also not saying I hate everything about it, it’s mostly neutral experience for me. Other than occasional frustration, I have no emotional response to it.

      And that’s why I say I “feel guilty” about not liking it. It’s considered by many to be one of the best games of all time, and I can’t find any enjoyment in it, so I just have to wonder what I’m doing wrong.

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    CodybluesTim Rogers
    6/05/18 4:52pm

    Is the painted world from Dark souls considered to be a vertical slice?

    I know it’s the best place ever, but I’m not sure if it has the things.

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      IlmyrnCodyblues
      6/07/18 11:32am

      I just finished Painted World the other day (aside from killing Priscilla - I didn’t realize you could talk to her when I played the game originally, and I couldn’t bring myself to attack her after talking to her this time around), and it really is all the best parts of Dark Souls in one compact area.

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    Batista Thumbs UpTim Rogers
    6/05/18 4:24pm

    Link To The Past Is Perfect 

    Fixed that for ya.

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      Manny Both-Hanz diedBatista Thumbs Up
      6/06/18 12:29am

      That’s really all that needs to be said.

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    levarienTim Rogers
    6/05/18 4:16pm

    It’s weird, but with the SNES Classic, I found myself playing A Link to the Past immediately. I didn’t plan it that way. I thought I’d have played FFVI or Super Mario RPG before I jumped back into Zelda, but damn if that game still isn’t super hard to put down.

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      jayg2levarien
      6/05/18 4:24pm

      Have you ever watched anyone play A Link To The Past Randomizer? I’ve sunk way to much time watching it while at the gym on the bike or treadmill. lol

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      etheredjayg2
      6/05/18 4:47pm

      I assumed I was the only weirdo who watched ALTTP randomizer videos at the gym! Especially the tournaments

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    Jack NapierTim Rogers
    6/05/18 5:19pm

    I don’t like these videos because Tim is so in love with his own voice and it shows.

    But I do like these videos...because I’m also in love with Tim’s voice.

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    ConstantineTim Rogers
    6/05/18 6:47pm

    What an amusing coincidence. I had been having a trifling need for some reason to kill Blind the Thief for the last few weeks, so a week or so ago I busted out the SNES classic and fired up A Link to the Past.

    It is still a very good game, and I still like the way that opening scene set the mood.

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    cwatzTim Rogers
    6/05/18 7:21pm

    I remember when I thought Zelda was so badass. Before the days of fighting giant tomatoes and other stupid things. Storming a castle in the middle of night like you are enacting a coup, slashing through the evil soldiers. The badass dude with the chain.

    It was the best.

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    Xopher Wailord BarnettTim Rogers
    6/05/18 4:14pm

    I enjoyed this video more than any you have ever done because you didn’t sound so try-hard, or force bad attempts at humor down our throats.

    You just sound down-to-earth and you’re just talking about games. That’s fantastic.

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      Ryan3370Xopher Wailord Barnett
      6/05/18 4:35pm

      Could you have backhanded any harder lol

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      Xopher Wailord BarnettRyan3370
      6/06/18 9:24am

      I am regularly vocal about how I dislike Rogers’ style.

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    Dominic SnyderTim Rogers
    6/05/18 4:59pm

    How did I know that this video from Tim Rogers about the first ten minutes of a game would end up being six times longer than ten minutes?

    (Love you, Tim.)

    Reply