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    SnugPakMyles McNutt
    12/04/17 4:32am

    I’m team Fiona on this one.
    Churches really aren’t that great as shelters. They can only be set up as very temporary housing and there are all kinds of privacy issues that would be compounded by the age of the clients in this case. It’s just not the right kind of environment for what they’re trying to achieve, so I’m really struggling to buy into the urgency of their need when there’s probably tons of unoccupied residential housing nearby that they can buy. Right now the entire conflict hinges on the fact that Ian ‘promised’ the church to two of ‘his kids’. I’d have bought into it more if it was about Ian pressuring Fiona into renting her empty apartments to the shelter, but they seem determined to build around this season’s religious moteifs - case in point, ep. 10 is called ‘The Church of Gay Jesus’.

    As a side note I was confused by Mel’s logic - she wants an art gallery in the church because she doesn’t want hipster bakeries that charge $12 for a muffin popping up?

    And then there’s the Ian and Trevor mess. I agree that Ian has been inexplicably predatory in his attempts to win him back, but I’m also uncomfortable with the distinctly transactional nature of their relationship. I don’t think they’re doing it deliberately, but I can’t help but notice the parallels between Ian whoring himself for church money and Trevor finally succumbing because Ian has done something ‘good’. I can just about buy that Ian’s interest in the kids is genuine, even though that narrative has been rushed, but I have difficulty believing he’d go to great lengths for them, unless they tie it into his mental health.

    And Trevor is “the best person I know”. Really? What little characterization he’s had this season has been all over the place; he was ripping Ian a new asshole last week for letting a kid sleep on his couch but he’s not concerned with Ian whoring himself out to his big donor? He admitted he uses fat men to boost his ego and quite happily banged another guy in front of Ian while the latter cried? But we’re supposed to believe they’re in love?

    “but there’s something so dramatically effective about the past just refusing to go away. It’s why I’m willing to tolerate Trevor giving into Ian’s persistence,”
    Really? I’m going to have to be that person and say, in what way are they framing this as Ian’s past haunting him? There’s been zero discussion of the elephant in the room for five episodes and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change. And that’s not even counting the more mundane considerations of why haven’t the feds caught up to him and why does he still have a job?

    Given the way Ian has apparently blotted out You-Know-Who’s memory after five years of pretty convincingly selling us a profound love story, how can we ever, ever buy into the idea that he loves Trevor - especially when he dropped him like a hot potato for a few days. We all know he didn’t come back because of him. Ian as he currently stands seems incapable of love and the only way their relationship makes sense to me is if each is using the other just as cynically - which I really don’t think is the narrative they’re trying to weave. As a result I just want to throw things at my TV every time they try to look longingly at each other. It’s ruining the show for me and I just can’t suspend belief or absorb myself in the show the way I used to.

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      TAGinMOSnugPak
      12/04/17 12:07pm

      Given the universe of other people Ian knows, I don’t think the activities you’ve cited would necessarily take Trevor out of the running for “best.”

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      Myles McNuttSnugPak
      12/04/17 12:27pm

      “Really? I’m going to have to be that person and say, in what way are they framing this as Ian’s past haunting him? There’s been zero discussion of the elephant in the room for five episodes and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change. And that’s not even counting the more mundane considerations of why haven’t the feds caught up to him and why does he still have a job?”

      Touche, although I would argue the show is still exploring a larger trend of characters being unable to let go of previous storylines (Lip with Sierra, Ian with Trevor, maybe sort of Debbie with Derek, etc.). The difference, of course, is that they’re being more selective about Ian’s past. I think it’s less about Ian’s past haunting him, and more about the show not just shuffling Trevor and Sierra off, instead retaining them as recurring presences that force the characters to reconcile that with their present situation. That’s a story the show can’t tell with Mickey based on everything that went down: yes, I think the show owes it to the characters to revisit it eventually, but circumstances being what they are I do appreciate they didn’t just reset Ian’s story.

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    frootloopsMyles McNutt
    12/03/17 9:26pm

    There’s an element of the Fiona/Ian/overall South Side issue that the show isn’t confronting and I’m not sure it ever will. It’s just so uncomfortable but...if you’ve grown up on the “wrong side of the tracks” and then you get away from it, you see how your former way of life isn’t sustainable and is often unsafe. Yes, there are systemic and unfair reasons for why these things are the way they are (and please apply this disclaimer to the rest of this comment, because it’s tedious to repeat it), but I can’t help but feel that Ian is being willfully naive here. Part of pulling yourself up is acknowledging that you no longer want to risk arrest by hanging out with your old unemployed drunk loser friends who drive drunk and shoplift. Lip struggles with this still - remember that moment a few years ago when he was starting to impress people in college and then he was embarrassed when Kev and Vee showed up soaking wet from some bullshit at the bar? Fiona seems to have overcome this hurdle pretty easily. Maybe because she doesn’t actually have a lot of ties to the community besides simply existing in it. The conflict of Shameless may be that Fiona thinks she’s better than the South Side, with the secondary question of whether it’s wrong to want to be better than the South Side. We acknolwedge that poverty isn’t awesome but we tend to condemn people who try to better themselves, as if they’re betraying their roots. Let’s just hope Shameless handles this well.

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      Myles McNuttfrootloops
      12/03/17 10:36pm

      I think that’s why I like the conflict so much: Fiona isn’t betraying her community. She’s out for her best interest, absolutely, but the prospective owners are pretty much the ideal tenants of gentrification: ties to the community, desire to give back, etc.

      I do think Shameless might struggle to stick the landing on this, depending on how it plays out. I think the season has seeded Fiona’s distance from the family: frankly, it would be a logical time for Fiona or even Lip to exit the show, but I don’t know if they’re willing to commit to a move like that one. It would be logical story wise, and let the show discussed the types of issues you’re getting at and which I really appreciate about this story, but it’s not really the show’s gear of choice.

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    jenniferMyles McNutt
    12/03/17 9:45pm

    I think the Fiona/Ian conflict is a serious one in which I can see Fiona using Ian being bipolar against him. He fucked that couple for 30k, which I think Trevor will definitely have a problem with and would seem to Fiona as evidence he might be off his meds. Trevor mentioned Ian had boundary issues with letting Geneva sleep in his bed. I think this could blow up and be an awesome ongoing conflict. Ian makes sense as the one against Fiona because he’s never had a problem with his roots/The South Side. He wanted Army, but then fell into being an EMT which is perfect for him.

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      Myles McNuttjennifer
      12/03/17 10:20pm

      It’s weird: given the way the show has handled the character, I think I’ve been trained to see none of his behavior as an explicit part of his bipolar disorder unless the show explicitly frames it accordingly. I’ve always felt it would be cheap for the show to use that as a way to “explain” choices that we see him make fairly carefully. I agree that this could create ramifications in his relationship with Trevor, but I struggle with the idea that this is a sign of his manic nature: we’re seeing no other evidence of this, and no indication it’s causing him problems in his job. He whored himself out to help kids—by Shameless logic, that’s just what you do. It’s a philosophical difference rather than a different in brain chemistry, I think. And I’m not convinced the show wants to think of Ian in the latter context.

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      jenniferMyles McNutt
      12/03/17 10:34pm

      Maybe the show won’t go there, but even if he’s not manic, I can simply see Fiona treating him as such. I do think whoring yourself out in that way is not good, even within the context of the show. Ian was not yet officially diagnosed when he worked at the club, and he met that due to do a porno right before his break when he took the baby. I don’t think they’d set up this conflict with Fiona and totally ignore his MH issues, but I could be wrong. I look forward to the ongoing story.

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    IzzyMyles McNutt
    12/04/17 2:24pm

    I’ve got to be honest. This episode kind of broke my heart.

    But it’s not just Ian …. This week it was all of them.

    Carl: So apparently 5 days detoxing can cure a drug addiction… Do I even need to point out the incredibly complex relationship between substance abuser and substance? How environment, circumstances, friends, family all intricately tie onto a long term addiction? Because Lip is currently struggling with all of those things IN THE SAME EPISODE! That’s not how rehab works, and these writers should know that!

    Also, I’ve cleaned out many grease traps in my day (I used to work in a fish and chip shop)…. It’s not that bad. If a grease trap smells that much Patsies needs to be shut down for breaking hygiene regulations. And you can’t just spray the thing with water; you need detergent to break down the fats and oils! Man up and get over yourself Carl, people do far worse work for a living.

    Debbie: Getting high whilst Franny is left in the car like so much forgotten luggage? Sorry Debs, FPS should have taken that baby away from you.

    Kev, V and Svetlana: It’s silly. I don’t care. It’s not funny. And I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I wish they’d given Kev cancer. They had the perfect storyline line right there, rich for mining with black humour and heartfelt moments of struggle… and they just threw it away in 2 episodes. What was even the point?!

    Fiona: I’m really struggling to reconcile myself with the money grubbing venture capitalist Fiona we see today. I suppose an art gallery is useful to the community, but it wasn’t that long ago that Fiona would have desperately needed a shelter or a food bank or something to help her raise those kids. And let’s face it, she doesn’t actually care about the community, she only cares about raising her rent as high as it will go. (As a renter of sub-par accommodation I find this personally offensive… sorry Shameless, but you hit a sore nerve there.)

    Ian: I can’t. It’s still too painful.

    Lip: Is great! I loved it. But I’m not sure I can keep watching if there is only one character I care about anymore.

    This might be the end of my Shameless journey. Objectively I understand your points Myles, but emotionally, this episode just broke me! And I don’t know if it’s fixable this time around.

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      MooseOutFrontShouldaToldYaIzzy
      12/04/17 2:52pm

      Oh yes, they definitely could have dragged out Kev’s storyline all season and it would have been SO much better than what is happening now. It would be very funny, but that seems like season 1-3 territory.

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      Myles McNuttIzzy
      12/05/17 12:44pm

      I absolutely respect that: I think it’s a good reminder that writing about the show can sort of decontextualize some of the emotional dynamics in favor of the more abstract ones.

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    MmmmMyles McNutt
    12/04/17 7:31am

    I don’t view Ian’s actions to secure the church as altruistic or philosophical.

    Seems like it’s a grand gesture for his crush and nothing more.

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      Myles McNuttmerged-5876237249235919016-ngtg9tubc
      12/04/17 12:23pm

      I think that sells Ian a little bit short: I do think that his sense of responsibility extends to the kids he’s helped, and not just about his relationship with Trevor.

      But it’s definitely not NOT about that, to your point.

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    mp72Myles McNutt
    12/04/17 11:20pm

    Remind me, are Vee and Fiona just straight up not friends anymore? They are still neighbors aren’t they? You’d think they’d at least still shoot each a text or something or see each other in passing.

    Miles’s relapse was way too obvious to carry any emotional resonance with me. Stress-induced alcoholism! Hooray clichés!

    I did love the twist that the rich couple turned out to be in an open marriage and the wife already knew all about the gay club bathroom blowjobs.

    As far as Liam, didn’t the principal tell Frank, erm Francis, that Liam was doing really well just a few episodes ago? And I guess the introduction of an even more “hood” student last week was just a red herring to be immediately dropped by the writers?

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      Myles McNuttmp72
      12/06/17 9:26am

      Vee was picking up shifts at Patsy’s earlier in the season, and she’s dropped in at least once since, I think: they don’t seem to be “hanging out,” but they’re certainly still connected.

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    MooseOutFrontShouldaToldYaMyles McNutt
    12/04/17 8:58am

    Lip is clear MVP this season (so far). Carl is a close second. I feel like I’m team Fiona at this point, I just can’t take anymore of the Ian pining for Trevor, it just seems hollow to me, like he’s trying too hard to forget Mickey. I can’t tell if he genuinely cares about the shelter or is just finding a way to keep their relationship going, which we all know will probably falter when Trevor figures out where that money came from. I also see more use for that art gallery guys’ plan than a shelter, which seems like it could be better for the community overall.

    Also this is probably the first season I could do completely without the Kev/V/Svetlana stuff.

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      Myles McNuttMooseOutFrontShouldaToldYa
      12/04/17 12:22pm

      This is not the first season where I have felt this way, I’ll admit, but they definitely didn’t crack the code with this story.

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    DanielMyles McNutt
    12/04/17 2:38am

    I think I discovered that my personal #EmptyCupAwards involves spotting references that reveal the setting to be anywhere but where it is actually intended to be, as palm trees can be seen in the background of the “Deb on Molly” scene. A Chicago staple!

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      Myles McNuttDaniel
      12/04/17 12:24pm

      Missed it on my screener (smaller screen, and all), but it’s particularly egregious in an episode that had Carl and Ian run through Real Chicago so conspicuously.

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    BenjamuffinMyles McNutt
    12/03/17 11:28pm

    A lot of this episode felt like table-setting for me, and I was a little bored waiting for the inevitable conclusions (Brad relapsing, Ian and Trevor getting back together, etc.), but I do really like this conflict they’re setting up between Fiona and Ian. In retrospect, maybe the hot tub scene between them earlier this season was supposed to heighten the stakes.

    I tend to be team Fiona, sort of, but that’s also because I much prefer her to Ian as a character, so it’s hard for me to separate that from the actual validity of his perspective. I’m not sure what the ‘right answer’ here is, but I agree with you that it’s an interesting conflict because Fiona is fighting for the ‘good guys,’ too, not some evil corporation.

    Debbie is still failing to interest me - I don’t particularly care about her new ‘love interest,’ and the baby plotline has just never really sucked me in. Maybe I’ll like it more once she faces actual consequences for her negligence, but I’m not sure what could make me invested in her as a character again.

    I generally didn’t like the Kev and V story in this episode, but some of the occasional Kev southern catchphrases made me laugh a lot, like when he came in at the end saying, “What in tarnation...”

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      TsunamiBenjamuffin
      12/04/17 10:32am

      The Vee and Svetlana thing is starting to really gross me out.

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      NevermindTsunami
      12/04/17 10:59am

      I agree. Svetlana isn’t interesting and should have remained in jail. I’d like Kev and Vee to interact with the family a bit more.

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    MmmmMyles McNutt
    12/04/17 6:34am

    What in tarnation?!?!

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