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    hocuspocusoctopusTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 9:22am

    First of all, lol at your many attempts to make sure the Sanders people don’t flame you. Good luck with that.

    Second, are people really-I’m mean really really- wanting Bernie Sanders to run in 2020? That man is 75 years old now. What the what? The cult needs to stop. There’s younger people out there if you’d just turn your sights away from this old man.

    Third, and lastly, fuck Cuomo and anyone trying to get him to run.

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      SheeshTheseNames
      7/19/17 11:17am

      Thank you! It’s ridiculous to have such an old person run for fucking president. There should be a rule about a maximum age just as there is a rule about a minimum age. I say you must be 70 or younger on the date you officially cast your hat in the ring. That is more than reasonable, considering the job.

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      ChiliVerdeDavis
      7/19/17 11:31am

      I think there’s a ton of people who want him to run and it’s primarily because when you look at the list of possible candidates TJS lists it’s a fucking dumpster fire. Ideally, they can develop a candidate by then, but as it stands now the Dems bench is empty. Harris is green but is the only one there that inspires any confidence.

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    eowynsdottirTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 9:13am

    Thanks for the flashback. . . and for everything in this article. This article is EVERY SINGLE DANG THING I have been trying to tell my white progressive friends ever since Bernie’s candidacy collapsed into a pile of white tears. I will just say this, regarding Bill Clinton. He was a master politician. Handsome. Confident. Good eye contact. Able to draw in the person he was speaking to with minimal effort. That man well deserved his 370 electoral votes.

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      skeffleseowynsdottir
      7/19/17 9:23am

      If Bill could have run again then he would have won handily. In fact his ongoing “Big Dawg” popularity was one of the things that harmed Hillary. I heard from multiple people that the reason they weren’t voting for Hillary was that they didn’t feel right about Bill in the “First Lady” position, that it was somehow undignified and humiliating. It goes without saying that that is a dumb as shit viewpoint (apart from anything else you can bet Bill would not have felt any political office was beneath him because he is a goddamn career politician and knows how to get things done and the importance of getting things done) but it was out there and there was never anything from the Hillary campaign to combat it. They should have had Bill speak more, just to assuage some of those white male tears and fears.

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      Darmok eats Challah at 12Nagraeowynsdottir
      7/19/17 9:44am

      The only dirt the Republicans can use on Democrats are sex scandals. But all the corruption, disregard for human life is a vital part of the GOP platform.

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    Dinosaurs and Nachos, Very Legal and Very Cool!Terrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 9:43am

    As the child of white, working-class voters, I am so fucking sick of hearing about white, working-class voters.

    Bernie Sanders can go kick rocks. He’s every supposedly progressive white guy I’ve ever met who uses his progressivism to feel better about himself but who is really sexist and racist underneath it all.

    Don’t get me wrong-I like some of his ideas. Post office banking, doing something (anything!) about student loan debt, fighting for greater economic equality, all these are great. But he is too myopic to consider anyone else might have a different life experience. He is willing to bend on reproductive rights because as a man, he someone missed that reproductive rights are absolutely fucking essential for women if we have any chance of reaching economic equality with men.

    If I can see these limitations towards women, I can understand that his limitations towards POC are probably far, far worse. I don’t want him for President.

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      The Intersectional Feminist part dosDinosaurs and Nachos, Very Legal and Very Cool!
      7/19/17 10:12am

      My “favorite” is how working-class people are somehow only white. Who’d a thunk it?!

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      BuffyismyhomosapienDinosaurs and Nachos, Very Legal and Very Cool!
      7/19/17 10:27am

      yeah I don’t know how someone like him, so on-point about how economic equality should look- is so damn obtuse about how economic equality is reached for the variety of demographics that he isn’t catering to. He seems to just not like the idea of ever straying from using his specific phraseology, as if replacing, “working class white” with “working class black” would somehow make his messages less poignant? He’d make a great mentor, IMO, but his chance is gone for presidency.

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    EuroYankeeTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 10:55am

    Note: I am what Terrell would call a “BernieBro” - except we Sanders supporters do NOT like that word. It has many negative connotations and was used to denigrate us, to put us down, to devalue our opinions and ourselves. “BernieBro” was developed by the ruling elite in the Democratic Party to subjugate, to stigmatize, to ridicule and generally to make an entire group of people feel like they did not count. And when it came to the Primary votes, I mean that in a literal sense.

    “BernieBro” is a word that has, over time, garnered unto itself a whole new meaning, one that is outsized in significance and weight, and when “BernieBro”used by someone outside our community of Sanders supporters, it has the power to hurt.

    It also has the power to enrage.

    Yes, we do use the word ourselves, and I may often call a fellow Sanders supporter “BernieBro” in a teasing fashion. Likewise, when describing a third party to others in our community, I may describe them in a positive sense as “a real BernieBro” just to communicate a sense of camaraderie and intimacy.

    I know we are not the first group of people to take a hurtful and negative word and make it our own, and through that ownership find solidarity and strength. But I would caution you to remember the origins of that word, the original meaning and intent behind it, and to have some empathy and sensitivity towards those of us you would broad-brush with that hated utterance.

    Regarding your article: You make a compelling case on a theoretical level, but the facts simply do not support your case. Every poll taken in recent months has Bernie doing better among PoC than even among whites. As a matter of fact (and I do mean fact), the typical “BernieBro” may very well be an African-American female.

    Illustration for article titled
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      Nina LemoneEuroYankee
      7/19/17 11:53am

      I know we are not the first group of people to take a hurtful and negative word and make it our own, and through that ownership find solidarity and strength. But I would caution you to remember the origins of that word, the original meaning and intent behind it, and to have some empathy and sensitivity towards those of us you would broad-brush with that hated utterance.

      The fuck? Is this sarcasm? Are you equating the weight of “Bernie bro” with a racial slur? Seriously?

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      Prostate of Dorian GrayEuroYankee
      7/19/17 12:14pm

      We’re all so proud of your ability to overcome. Your struggle is truly inspiring.

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    skefflesTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 9:19am
     There’s no way Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) should be considered the Democratic Party’s 2020 front-runner.

    Agreed. He is too old. We need a younger candidate in the 40-50 age range. The Sandersbase should work to keep up enthusiasm and Bernie should be looking at the Democrat ranks with an eye to endorsing a younger candidate from the get go.

    None of that will happen though. The Democrats will do something dumb again and it is Pence/Some Asshole 2020 as victor. Calling it now. There are just too many people on all sides of the Democrat party who are more interested in rehashing and re-fighting the 2016 campaign instead of working out how to fight the next one.

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      David E. Davis rides again!skeffles
      7/19/17 9:37am

      I really, really wish Tammy Duckworth was eligible to run. She’s a minority female who also happens to be a disabled veteran. That ticks so many boxes it should be a no brainer.

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      HuskyBroDavid E. Davis rides again!
      7/19/17 9:39am

      But we really don’t know anything about her other than those things you mentioned.

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    JonsLegionTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 10:53am

    Here’s the thing that gets me about BernieBros. They don’t want to do the legwork. They have their fucking great white hope, and they act like they think he’s gonna wave a magic wand and make everything better. Bernie carried my county caucus by a slightly less than two to one margin. Democrats in my state (KS) showed up for the caucus at a 3/2 ratio vs. Republicans. Much of the local slate of candidates were both supportive of his “Working Class” and “Anti-establishment” stance. And Yet.... There were no BernieBots at local rallies for candidates that should have been his allies. There were no BernieBros packing the parades or county party offices. When it came to doing the actual fucking work of winning, they were all home on giphy or facebook or overwatch or some such shit. They want economic equality and all this, but they don’t fucking care to get in the dirt and fight for it. Until they damn well grow up and get their hands dirty, I will continue to write them off.

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      Manitos, The Tiny Hands of TrumpJonsLegion
      7/19/17 12:40pm

      The Tea Party revolution in the Republican Party showed us that a rabid, mobilized base could force the establishment away from the center in about a year. The Bernie Bros have shown none of that tenacity or willingness to get the party to move left. The DNC is in shambles right now, but the Bernie Bros would rather hashtag resist and circle jerk on twitter.

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      TzaManitos, The Tiny Hands of Trump
      7/19/17 1:00pm

      Yep. You don’t just yell—you vote, you phone, you get engaged and stay that way for a while. You WORK.

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    AngelaInDetroitTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 9:23am
    Ask Barack Obama. Black women win presidencies.

    I think the Elephant party and the Donkey party really really don’t get this. Elephants think we are all baby poppin, welfare suckin, dope heads and donkeys think we are ample bosom having, church going, good meal cookin mammies. Sometimes I conjure an all Black Themyscira to keep from going insane. LOL

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      TheRealMarthaJones3.0AngelaInDetroit
      7/19/17 10:29am

      Sometimes I conjure an all Black Themyscira

      Go on. Continue

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    llaalleellTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 10:10am

    Thanks for shining some light on this. I’ve long had respect for Sanders before he ran and I still do. But I and many other black women I’ve spoken with (especially young black women who were very excited by his candidacy) acknowledged many of the issues discussed here.

    I recently spent a weekend with and friend and rabid Bernie-bro and he gave me his schtick about Sanders, some valid points, some not so much. But he did agree that for me and my priorities as a black woman, Sanders wasn’t a compelling enough candidate. In many ways, Sanders just wasn’t practical enough in ways that directly impact black women and people absolutely take for granted how important that is.

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      supersweetllaalleell
      7/19/17 12:30pm

      except while maybe he doesnt overtly express it terms of black vs white, everything he stands for would help everyone, including black women.

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      llaalleellsupersweet
      7/19/17 2:00pm

      People make this argument, but I don’t find it persuasive or that it holds up. It relies heavily on the “get in line” form of policymaking where supposedly universal policy victories make inherent value judgments that don’t prioritize black women. Or they rely on a trickle down type of reasoning where black women receive the benefit after others have gotten theirs—always a danger, i.e., affirmative action where the very people who benefit most subsequently devalue it. This has been especially noteworthy on economic policies regarding housing and employment.

      And since he does shy away from acknowledging nuanced policy issues affecting POC, there’s just not much “there” there to make a strong case for supporting his platform. So no.

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    The Intersectional Feminist part dosTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 9:48am

    He is not a Democrat. Therefore, he should not be the Democratic presidential nominee.

    I also agree with everything said here about black women votes. I am tired of people pandering to white racists. Fuck them.

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      Thisisstillathing1979The Intersectional Feminist part dos
      7/19/17 1:24pm

      Promise this isn’t trolling but blacks are only 13% of the population. For the voter who wants to know about black reparations, the logical answer is that policies for 85% of the working population making under $100k will help everyone.

      By continuing to divide along racial lines, you only maker it easier for a GOP not lead by idiots to lure the 20% of the population that’s Latino to say “hey what about us?”.

      Bernie’s appeal was a color-blind class message. The man is done but that’s the winning platform.

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      TyroSmith43The Intersectional Feminist part dos
      7/19/17 4:51pm

      He was more a democrat than 50% of democrats in congress right now including queen hillary who was center to right leaning.

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    TheFuriousFiveTerrell Jermaine Starr
    7/19/17 11:44am

    An interesting article for sure, but the problems that I saw with Hillary’s run and Bernie’s loss is:

    5. Hillary is Hillary. She’s never been beloved and will never be beloved. She doesn’t inspire much of anybody to rush out to the polls for her, just against someone else.

    4. I saw more blacks in general, and black women in particular, that were amenable to the possibility to Hillary because of Bill, once again not because of Hillary.

    3. People knew of Bernie, but really didn’t feel like they knew Bernie. He was playing catch up from Day One.

    2. The ways and the times that he would’ve made himself known to people outside of his cult was through the debates and we know that those were timed and scheduled to make sure that the bulk of Southern black voters still wouldn’t have “known him” prior to their primary vote.

    Yes, he still had problems within himself and his own campaign, but the DNC knew what they were doing and it was proven.

    1. But, above all, Bernie is Jewish and he will continue to be Jewish. There are way too many black people, white people and everyone in between that simply don’t like Jewish people.

    I don’t know why people want to sidestep that basic fact.

    They may not spraypaint Swastikas or hurl slurs or even refuse to be around them, but there is just enough dislike/distrust to swear to everyone that you are a Blue Dog Democrat and hate the Republicans and then walk into a private voting booth and check the opposite or different name than what you said you would.

    This happens every time something is voted for that people thought was a sure thing. And, it isn’t half as complicated or black or white as the brokenhearted want to believe.

    Blacks didn’t vote Prop 8 through in California, white people that LGBT thought were allies did.

    Blacks that didn’t vote or didn’t vote for Hillary aren’t the reason why she lost, the 53% of white women that voted for Trump, who are now pretending that they were among the 47% that didn’t, are the reason.

    People lie about their votes all the time because the truth isn’t worth it, especially if the person that they wanted to win, won.

    There will be some previous Trump voters that will lie about voting for him or Pence the next time because they want to save face in conversation, but save their various entitlements in private.

    Hillary was a horrible candidate that Bill made tolerable. Bernie wasn’t as great of a candidate as his supporters believe and he will never be able to not be Jewish. Donald Trump was neither one of them and picked the right year and opponents to run against. He had a lot of people voting for him and just enough people willing to vote against either Bernie or Hillary, it wouldn’t have mattered who won the ticket.

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      merchantfanTheFuriousFive
      7/19/17 1:09pm

      Thank you for bringing up the Jewish thing. It is really insidious how deep anti-semitism in the left runs. They’re really happy to point out when right wingers are anti-semitic, but then they go quiet when it happens on the left or argue that it wasn’t *really* anti-semitic. I don’t know if Sanders could’ve overcome his Jewishness, but it’s pretty much a moot point now. I’m not sure why we’re bringing it up again.

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      burnthismuthadown wants Tokers Town feathersTheFuriousFive
      7/19/17 1:18pm

      It’s not him being Jewish that is the problem. It’s him not “manifesting” Jewishness, admittedly in a way that’s familiar to Southern Blacks, that comes across as questionable. Atheism is not cool in the South. Turning away from God...when your people invented Him (in Jesusers’ minds) is “off”.

      Jews I grew up with tended to be more overtly religious. As they are even more of minority in the South, religious services really pull community together in a way that’s not needed in NY, Chicago, Boston, LA. Hell, even New Orleans. All ethnic minorities in the South are like this. Bernie didn’t strike folks as the kind of guy who walks to shul (because that’s how it goes outside of the major, major cities where most people do drive). He came across like someone who doesn’t really care about “his people.”

      There is something odd (and untrustworthy) about a minority who doesn’t come across like a member of his/her minority. Yes, that is a very limited and inaccurate point of view that doesn’t reflect the breadth of the Jewish community. It is, what it is.

      If I’d been Bernie’s manager, I would have dug up “the Good Book”, had him brush up on his Bar Mitzvah Hebrew, and had him pointing at the sky with both hands hollerin’ “TRADITIOOON” like Tevye all over the South (tradiciooon en Tejas).

      Pandering and ridiculous? Damn straight. No worse than HRC’s swaying and blaccent (really, it would be better to all except Jews who don’t perform Fiddler in summer stock).

      He would have turned heads and gotten votes too. I would be on the cover of the New Yorker looking smug.

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