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    DadvillainDanielle C. Belton
    3/18/17 8:44am

    I’ve always rejected the notion that I should be D9. My mother and sister are AKAs, pops and granddad were Nupes, and I have countless relatives and colleagues who are all D9. The thing is, after going through Marine Corps boot camp and seeing hazing firsthand at various units, it turned me off to the idea once I started going to school post-military. On some, “I’m a combat vet. I wish a nigga would,” type shit. Watching the movie validated that thought process but this commentary helps me keep it in perspective.

    Also, what’s grad chapter like?

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    Kam ThompsonDanielle C. Belton
    3/18/17 12:13am

    I want to challenge some of the responses here:

    1. It’s basically what happens when you have younger members making shit up as they go with no guidance from prophytes.

    - African-American scholar, Dr. John Hope Franklin, in his autobiography, Mirror to America, documented hazing in his fraternity in the 1930s. For almost 100 years, this has been an issue that has not gone away. There appears to be an increase in hazing related incidents since pledging was stopped by BGLOs in 1990.

    2. Still operating illegally on campus. Like, they didn’t feel like a “legal” frat to me. ... But they were supposed to be legal? And old people were aware of them in the movie.

    - Hazing happens within “legal” chapters as well as “illegal chapters” - The Dean recommended him to the frat, which means he knew it wasn’t an underground pledging process trying to happen.

    3. I just think it was all a caricature of a fraternity. ... So apparently the director went to Virginia State last night, and the bruhs not so politely escorted him off the yard.

    It’s based on a true story, so how it is a caricature? The director being removed by the brush, do you think that wasn’t telling of how they ignore the problem of having a dialogue about issues instead of being upset. You all already know that we avoid public conversations about hazing.

    4. ​DB: Not surprised.

    This confirms my statement on how not being surprises means we already know.

    5. He didn’t have a villain for the movie, so he made “pledging” the villain. I always believed stuff like this leads to MORE people getting hurt.

    Pledging is not the villain, all the hazers are. Pledging isn’t the problem, it’s those of us who don’t stand up for what’s right is the problem. The fact that you state, “this leads to MORE people getting hurt.” — which means you already know this happens, despite many people on this thread dying it happens.

    6. Yupp ... when you have younger members just making ish up as they go, that’s when problems arise.

    Again, this is untrue. Hazing has been happening for nearly 100 years in BLGOs. Refer to response #1.

    7. CT: The movie just irritated me because now it gives non-Greek [people] some kind of right to talk about a process that they have no real understanding of.

    As a member of a BLGO, what irritated me is that this young man died. Not what people who weren’t Greek would say or what leverage it would give them over us. This is a part of the problem, you think it takes away from your shine belonging to a BLGO. You missed the point despite the film being about hazing, you still made it about you and what you stand for. People have no real understanding of being Greek because we don’t allow them to. We have to admit that.

    8. MH: You didn’t make it that far into the movie, but the scene where the double doors open and there were a bunch of bruhs waiting for them at hell night, I literally had a flashback.

    I wonder why....hazing?

    9. DB: Y’all not gonna convince me to finish this stressful movie.

    Why not? Come face to face with the truth instead of ignoring it — remember that’s how we got here, people ignore people’s harmful Greek experiences.

    10. MH: But in general, the movie created a false narrative. There are people who never pledged, who watched the movie, and want to have a conversation about pledging and hazing based on a caricature.

    - Sir, you just had a flashback on your own experience, how is it a false narrative, again, it’s a true story. It happened. Also, again, making it about people who aren’t Greek and how they see you, just like CT. This shouldn’t be your primary reason for being upset. Sure, I dislike that many people will have this sole perception, but the conversation on changing this being a sole perception should be before how people are dying to belong.

    11. MH: Because now they think they know what it’s like.

    Who cares? This is much better than our social capital....which is a problem because it’s why so many people want to go Greek and not for community service, etc.

    12. CT: Like, the mental hazing could have been played up so much more. THAT is the real hazing.

    Because beating someone to death doesn’t count as hazing?...and yes mental hazing is just as harmful.

    “The invisible side of hazing is the toll it takes on an individual’s psyche, and the long-term effect on their brain development. It’s not like Lambda Lambda Phi, the fictional fraternity in the film, appears to be a frat full of humble men based on how they show up in this space. The humiliation brought to bear in hazing often leaves scars that are unseen. The film alludes to this issue without taking it on directly. Advances in neuroscience teach us that trauma can literally rewire the brain making things seem “normal” that really aren’t, and causing us to repress memories until triggered. While the movie doesn’t wade into the membership experiences of women in BGLOs, Dr. Gina Lee-Olukoya, author of Sisterhood: Hazing and other membership experiences of women belonging to historically African American sororities, shares stories of some women reflecting that they have trouble with trust and meaningful relationships as a result of being on line.”

    13. MH: The biggest thing about it was he didn’t give a legitimate reason why anyone would go through this.

    - Because there is no legitimate reason. Because it’s not right, it’s not okay and people shouldn’t be harmed under any circumstances.

    14. CT: Like, a bruise goes away, but the scars from mental hazing are forever.

    - I’m really in shock — who is CT....you have the most contradictory responses on here. A bruise shouldn’t happen. It is not okay.

    15. MH: They didn’t know their history and it was hell week.

    - A lot of people on this thread don’t know what’s right and wrong. A lot of people blamed new Greeks for hazing despite there being recorded conversations and books written by Greeks who were abused 40, 50, 60, 70 years ago...

    16. MH: Everyone who pledged probably watched the movie like, “There’s no way.” And everyone who didn’t watched the movie like, “There’s no way.” I don’t know what anyone took from the movie except negativity about fraternities and sororities.

    - I watched the movie with three AKAs and 2 Deltas we agreed on several parts had happen to either us or our friends, even one mention of one of their mom’s husband. What did you take away from it? Did you say damn some things need to change? or do you want more Black men to be introduced to the doors you were opened to when you were going to get hazed? (referencing your flashback)

    17. CT: Didn’t we already have School Daze? Was that not enough?

    I don’t know, have people stopped hazing since then? No...

    18. MH: Yes. ... It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and I’m glad I did it. But I’d never do it again.

    I feel the same way, I wonder why? Yet we get up in arms about people talking about the harmful parts about it.

    A lot of people on this thread seem problematic, and contradict themselves. Ask yourself why are we more hell-bent on dispelling myths about the things we KNOW we’ve gone through, friends and family have gone through than fixing the problem. We have to hold ourselves accountable and protect BLGO by doing the right thing.

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    NaydeezyDanielle C. Belton
    3/18/17 3:38am

    This was just hard to read. All of you sounded like whiny brats worrying about an image rather than compassionate people concerned about other’s humanity. People have actually died.

    I heard little to acknowledge the actual issue addressed in film, hazing and it’s real life implications. (Sorry I think one of you said bruises heal. My bad). And absolutely nothing about empathy for the victims of hazing. Instead you are griping about how this film creates a caricature of pledging, and those who haven’t been through a process will unduly criticize the negative aspects, such as death.

    Seriously, I hope you all re-read this thread and imagine you are the family member of a hazing victim, and realize how trivial, self-serving and utterly uncaring you sound. This movie was about spotlighting how dangerous hazing has been, and calling to the carpet those who sit on the sidelines. And all you guys can be concerned with is the perception of orgs and that not enough community service was shown. If he wanted to make a movie about the good works of Greek life he would have. This movie was about the danger that occurs out of sight and puts people’s lives at risk.

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    Dr SelinaDanielle C. Belton
    3/17/17 4:55pm

    Z-phi Soror!!

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    Pinoco82Danielle C. Belton
    3/18/17 1:45am

    The funny thing about reading this conversation is that I still walk away thinking that fraternities and sororities are crazy, even if I do believe you all when you say that this movie is both bad and inaccurate. I mean, people do realize that you can do community service work and make long lasting friendships without joining what amounts to a secular cult, right? There are people in this conversation talking about having flashbacks (like, in a PTSD type way, as opposed to recalling a fond memory) and the long lasting scars of emotional hazing, for christ’s sake. People saying that pledging was one of the hardest things they’d ever done... and I’m sitting here thinking, if I was going to put myself through something that I’d one day describe in such a way, it’d damn sure need to be for something more important than joining a club at school. I get that you end up leaving college with a super useful professional networking tool in your back pocket (an AKA I knew once told me that every single job she’d ever gotten had in someway been aided by the fact of her membership) but is it seriously worth it? (Also, doesn’t that type of nepotism gross anyone out at all?) I am asking earnestly, because the justifications I hear from people are quite a lot like the ones you all gave. Super vague, and hollow sounding, along with a healthy dose of “you just can’t understand unless you’ve been through it” type talk... which again leads me back to thinking of these things as creepy and cult like. Creepy, bougie, and cult like.

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      AriPinoco82
      4/15/17 11:18am

      Exactly. That is exactly what I was thinking when I read their responses. One person’s simply said they weren’t going to watch at all because it would be too upsetting for them. None of them were compassionate at all and none of them helped to illuminate exactly why it was “worth it” to do this. Although, as you already pointed out it is possible to service communities, have brother/sisterhood without the use of violence and emotional abuse.

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    Gary TeekayDanielle C. Belton
    3/17/17 8:19pm

    If you have any doubts about the accuracy of the hazing depicted in this film, just check out the “hazing’ sections of the Wikipedia articles on these 4 Black fraternities. These are just the incidents that came to public attention. From what I hear, these are just the tip of the iceberg. Alpha Phi Alpha, Omega Phi Psi, Kappa Alpha Psi, Phi Beta Sigma

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    Thotline Bling: black girl supremacyDanielle C. Belton
    3/17/17 4:10pm

    This movie... lacked direction, meaning, and purpose. There is no character development, not much of a plot, no apparent motivation... How bad does your movie about a fraternity have to be for the main character to not know why he is pledging?! Or his LB’s name? I was hoping for something more from a Greek director. But this isn’t even worth watching on the Netflix account you already have access to or borrowing your cousin’s PW.

    The best thing about the film is the wit displayed in this take down of it.

    If anyone’s perception of Omega Psi Phi or other black GLOs is shaped or negatively impacted by this movie, it will more than likely be because that person doesn’t know any Greeks in real life. (And this is coming from a GDI.)

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    PeterDanielle C. Belton
    3/19/17 7:22am

    My brother has *actual* post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of his pledging to the most prominent fraternity at the university he attended, which is regularly ranked in top 30 colleges in the country. He’s 30 now, and it still affects him. It’s something he’s in active treatment for. Every person I know who’s experienced the pledging process without getting fully invested in the organization has a similar story. I didn’t go to the same school as him, and heard the same stories. Not only that, butthe memoir that the film Goat was based on was written by an alumni of my school. I live in a city full of folks who have no connection to that university system, and I still hear similar stories. This stuff is epidemic among greek orgs.

    I understand there is an important history to the Divine 9. But Greek orgs need reform, or they need to be abolished.

    The white ones, at least, absolutely need to be abolished.

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    teddyballgame9Danielle C. Belton
    3/18/17 8:22am

    “If Netflix’s Burning Sands were about drug addiction instead of hazing, would people be talking about it?”

    I don’t know. If ham tasted like licorice would people still eat it?

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