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    dvdoffRich Juzwiak
    7/19/13 4:55pm

    Gee, one side is an academic who studies these beautiful creatures the other makes money on them. Guess who I believe?

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      Rich Juzwiakdvdoff
      7/19/13 5:01pm

      This is what I always come back to.

      Ric O'Barry in The Cove is what really convinced me, though, that cetacean captivity is no damn good. In case you didn't see, he trained the original group of dolphins that portrayed Flipper. He claims that one killed herself in his arms, miserable from her years of captivity. (Dolphins consciously have to take each breath — he says this one just didn't.) Here is a guy who only stood to profit from concealing this information — training dolphins was how he made his money! That he didn't, that he spoke out as a result of his experience is all the convincing that I needed.

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      NorthbynortheastRich Juzwiak
      7/19/13 5:53pm

      Everybody needs to see The Cove. Dolphin suicide, Asian bays with water completely bright red like some battle scene in World War 2, but all from dolphin round-up slaughters. It's horrifying, but mandatory watch for the educational value. (It's also a very well crafted film too.)

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    Gabrielle CyniqueRich Juzwiak
    7/19/13 4:50pm

    I spent a brief part of my childhood in Cleveland, and every summer my dad picked up passes to SeaWorld (why Cleveland even had a SeaWorld is a mystery, but anyway). I probably saw Clyde & Seamore's Spooky-Kooky Castle at least 50 times, and the Shamu show another 50 times. We went to San Diego SeaWorld a few years later, and I remember gullibly running up to the whale tank, and when Shamu swam over, giddily exclaiming "She remembers me!" Not realizing there were about 10 different Shamus.

    Later in law school, I stumbled across Eckis v. SeaWorld (which doesn't have a Wiki otherwise I'd link you). The first Shamu was the very first killer whale to live in captivity for more than 13 months. 13 months. And of course what did they do with her? Made her jump through hoops. After a couple of years of that, sometime in the late-60s/early-70s, Shamu attacked Eckis, her trainer, thus the suit. They put Shamu out to pasture, captured another whale, named it Shamu, and on we go.

    I still have a lot of fond memories of those walrus kisses from Uncle Schmedley. But I would never set foot in a SeaWorld ever again.

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      GoOnWithoutMeRich Juzwiak
      7/19/13 5:46pm

      Thank you, Rich, for this. Very interesting and a good read. I'm especially interested (and horrified by) the use of positive peer pressure to intimidate a whale. I've used it with kids, and that is not the way I would want to see it done for them, or any animal.

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        GoingBursarGoOnWithoutMe
        7/20/13 5:17am

        What is it and how does it work? I haven't heard the phrase before.

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        GoOnWithoutMeGoingBursar
        7/20/13 6:10am

        Well, the way they are doing it would be like if you had a kid in school with some behavioral issues, who has also been bullied by classmates, and use the class as a group "bully" to control or reinforce his behavior. So the kid becomes even more of a target, more outside the peer group (which sounds important to whales too) and probably complies due to fear, which is not how positive training is supposed to work.

        So say Matt is the kid who acts out, and is also had peers push him around, and Matt is talking while I'm talking and that is a behavior I do not want. So I stop everything and say "we will lose recess if Matt isnt't quiet, everyone" so his peers start sniping at him to intimidate him into being quiet.

        Instead, I could use it in the other way, of having the kids help Matt redirect to something quiet, and they get rewarded for their pro-social behavior and teamwork, he learns to choose quiet for positive reasons, and they all get 10 more minutes of active play that day. Everyone becomes more cooperative in that scenario and less Lord of the Flies, which is how their intepretation of the method sounds to me.

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      FnarsbourgRich Juzwiak
      7/22/13 10:17am

      I don't think it condemns zoos and the like so much as it condemns for-profit zoos like Sea World. It's pretty clear by the end of the doc that the deaths Tikilum caused are pretty much directly due to Sea World's refusal to properly train their personnel or hire people who can properly manage a dangerous predator.

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        julie.reiznerFnarsbourg
        7/22/13 11:31am

        Thanks for mentioning the separation of places like SeaWorld, and actual, accredited zoos which, nowadays, are mostly trying to breed critically endangered species and get visitors to have experiences with wildlife so they will grow up to care about it. (And no, the "internet age" as someone mentioned doesn't count - nothing gets someone as interested in the plight of endangered species due to the pet trade like getting them to touch and visit with a Dumeril's Ground boa, which used to be one of my jobs at the Cincinnati Zoo - you can really see the wheels turning in their heads!) We know firsthand that an emotional contact is the only way to get most people to actually understand and care about wildlife, unfortunately. Also, people see these animals in as natural an environment as humanly possible, which more and more zoos are constantly striving for, and the only "tricks" are commands that the vet needs, particularly with elephants (i.e., lifting a foot) and other animals that you physically can never control. There is a huge difference, and I hope people keep that in mind when seeing this film - zoos (that are accredited through the AZA, which requires some breeding and a comprehensive reintroduction program of endangered species, among many other criteria that are designed for the best interests of the species as well as individual animals) are NOT SeaWorld.

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        Fnarsbourgjulie.reizner
        7/22/13 2:11pm

        Not a problem; professional, accredited zoo are basically scientific facilities doing serious work. Sea World is a theme park. Biiiiiig difference.

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      MsxHRich Juzwiak
      7/19/13 4:54pm

      I've read most of the source material regarding killer whales kept in captivity, and the evidence is damning. Every captive animal, as a species, is going to have a unique reaction to their environment. For the most part it's not good. We've got a few happy friends, but they're primarily the animals who grew alongside us: cats, dogs, etc.

      This stuff is an unsubtle condemnation against the humans with a habit of infantilizing the wild kingdom. They're not here for our entertainment. Shamu will hold you under the water until you're a sunken play toy. It's very possible that some of these whales are driven stark raving mad.

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        whoownsmytimeMsxH
        7/19/13 5:00pm

        exactly. these are not animals that we have any business trying to domesticate. they can't live with us, they can't be our pets, they can't be our buddies. all we should do is observe them where they're meant to exist and respect them, not make them jump through hoops and splash 5 year olds. they're worth a lot more than what sea world and similar places reduce them to

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        MsxHwhoownsmytime
        7/19/13 5:14pm

        Yep. And I think people can't seem to wrap their noggins around the idea that if you love and respect something, a whale in this case, the best thing to do is to leave it alone as much as possible. I mean, these animals have migrating patterns that are thousands of miles long across terrain that we can hardly imagine. So their existence is expressed through space. Vast quantities of space. Screw speculations about alien life forms. We haven't even begun to understand the life that exists on our own planet.

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      mymomsawmyjunkRich Juzwiak
      7/19/13 4:51pm

      The more you learn about Killer Whales, the less palatable it is to see them performing tricks in captivity. Then again, other than rehabilitation, what purpose do zoos and marine parks serve in the digital age?

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        Carnationsmymomsawmyjunk
        7/19/13 5:13pm

        Responsible zoos actually perform a lot of great functions - rehab, rescue, research, and education, to name a few. Most only use animals that could not survive in the wild, typically animals which have been injured, or bred as pets and abandoned/seized. But calling SeaWorld a zoo would be a stretch, at best. Its more like the animal shows at a circus.

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      araucaniadRich Juzwiak
      7/19/13 5:47pm

      I find the issue of captive orcas fascinating. I might not have found out about this documentary, but now that you've publicized Sea World's rebuttal, I'm totally going to see it. Thanks for bringing in the biologist's input, well done.

      Although I have to admit, the word "fish" in the title makes me wince.

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        graefixaraucaniad
        7/19/13 6:02pm

        "Blackfish" is actually the Inuit word for killer whale. That's where the titles comes from.

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        araucaniadgraefix
        7/20/13 6:30pm

        I stand corrected!

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      Manny-BothansRich Juzwiak
      7/19/13 5:03pm

      I am in no way an animal rights extremist. In fact I'm still pissed that California banned fois gras. But I have no idea why anyone would think it is ok to pen Orcas in swimming pools. As a kid I thought it was cruel back in the 70's while visiting Sea World San Diego and I still feel that way now. I understand that Shamu has brought awareness and eduction to the public, but that mission was accomplished long ago. To hell with Seaworld. It's time for elected leaders to ban the capture and display of these beautiful animals.

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        Redbrick HellpigeonRich Juzwiak
        7/19/13 7:20pm

        Am I the only one who thinks orcas are black metal as f*ck?

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          brontebratRedbrick Hellpigeon
          7/19/13 11:48pm

          No, you're not, and this photo will haunt my dreams until the day I die.

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          UnafraidRabbitRedbrick Hellpigeon
          7/20/13 10:32am

          They are even more metal quad wielding machettes in a mech-suit.

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        IIIlllRich Juzwiak
        7/19/13 4:44pm

        They also didn't like The Cove which exposed the moral conundrum of the Dolphin industry and keeping animals like that in captivity. I haven't visited a aquarium that holds dolphins or whales since, despite the offer on a few occasions.

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