Kinja reply list

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Not A SnortHamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:53pm
I once saw a commercial for The Real Housewives of Whoknowswhere and I've been frightened of upper middle class white women ever since.
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  TrainGoesChooChooNot A Snort
  7/17/13 2:04pm
  That is perfectly reasonable.
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  cheerful_exgirlfriendNot A Snort
  7/17/13 2:10pm
  You should be.
  
  GIF
  
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MizJenkinsHamilton Nolan
7/17/13 2:37pm
Even - nay, especially - if you accept what this pitiful, self-absorbed White woman has said as true this case should have gone the other way. If you accept what she says as true then broadly speaking African-Americans have WAY MORE reason to fear violence at the hands of White people than White people have to fear danger from them. Also I'm pretty sure we can all agree that children experience more danger from adults than vice versa.

Common sense says that if aggregate historical experience is to be your blueprint for present day decision-making Trayvon Martin had every reason to fear for his life and Florida law says that means he was within his right to stand his ground and fight for it.
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  LauraNorderMizJenkins
  7/17/13 2:58pm
  Yeah, considering the entire history of the US has been built upon white male oppression and mistreatment of women and people of colour, it's quite galling for a white person to suggest that "precedent" (crime statistics based on CJ system that was designed to send black men to jail) should inform people's behaviours.
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  MarcabExpatMizJenkins
  7/17/13 3:31pm
  Holy shit, yes. Context is everything, indeed.
  
  ETA: I hope you go post this on WaPo.
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김치전!Hamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:45pm
Last week I had my car vandalized by a white teenager. Within the scope of my experience, white teens are criminals; does this mean I get to shoot them?

For reference, I live in a state with a Stand Your Ground law.
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  Anustart김치전!
  7/17/13 1:49pm
  You've earned the right to think they're all criminals and yes, you stand your ground, American.
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  Arctic16김치전!
  7/17/13 1:51pm
  It's guns a-blazin' for you from now on!
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sui_generisHamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:51pm
"...it is wrong to presume that recognizing a racial characteristic is necessarily racist..."

...she stated, totally without irony.

Wow.

I wonder if anyone has sat her down and explained to her that preassigning people "characteristics" based on their phenotype is, in fact, the very core and basis of racism.

(p.s. — prepare for the onslought of our favorite half-dozen or so local crypto-racist trolls, who should LOVE this dummy...)
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  cheerful_exgirlfriendsui_generis
  7/17/13 1:58pm
  I'm in to read before the trolls. I can't stomach all the "How is it racist???!!!!" BS anymore. like ever again.
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  JohninLAsui_generis
  7/17/13 2:03pm
  Merely recognizing a racial characteristic isn't necessarily racist. However, thinking that one is predisposed to certain behavior, based on race, is totally different.
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hi4g5Hamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:46pm
She's not saying it's common sense, she's saying peoples viewpoints are shaped by their life experiences.

For example, I don't stick my nuts in the bug zapper anymore because it hurts, so now I am biased against bug zappers because they can shock me.

I do agree with her central idea that people are entitled to their viewpoints/prejudices since people are inherently good and their experiences shape their perception on things.
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  filmgirlhi4g5
  7/17/13 1:59pm
  Where you are wrong is that people are not inherently good. I don't believe it anymore.
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  LadyMTLfilmgirl
  7/17/13 2:02pm
  I actually do still believe it, because for every racist bitch like her there's a story about a kid finding his dad's long-lost Mustang, or Redditors sending pizza to a child in a cancer ward. It can be hard to see sometimes, but there is good out there. :)
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Snacktastic Part II: the Snack AwakensHamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:55pm
You know, except it's not common sense. There is such weird perception. Maybe this isn't a great point, but here it is. Most people who worked with court mandated teenagers know that, while there are variations, most urban black kids are not doing a ton of drugs. It's not something you really take seriously and they themselves talk about how nuts white kids are on drugs, especially those in rural and suburban areas. Maybe they just have less fear. Maybe it's the way they grew up. I think when they'd talk about it—it'd make sense. I grew up in a rural area as a white person and my peers were doing heroin before high school and the worst drug addicted teens are almost all white. But it's the black kids who end up in jail for smoking weed. They also get stuck in jail for fighting, at times, getting criminal charges when white kids get almost nothing—they just doing get arrested. I've seen a case where white kids best the shit out of this black kid and when he fought back, he was the only one jailed. His lawyer was livid—I think she made a big stink. It was appalling, but not unusual. There is such a press to send black teenagers to jail and then all the people defending racial profiling above say things like that it's because they are committing the crimes. I've been in situations for crimes that are usually evenly distributed even, it's always black kids who get arrested.
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  EasttoMidwestSnacktastic Part II: the Snack Awakens
  7/17/13 3:15pm
  I went to an urban public school and I didn't know anyone who messed around with addictive drugs (besides cigarettes). Later, I met lots of private school kids and suburban kids, and I was completely mystified at the number of their peers who were doing hard shit in high school.
  
  My working theory is that the urban kids both saw first hand the effects of addictive drugs (we lived through the crack epidemic) and also were VERY aware of how little margin there was for certain kinds of youthful mistakes.
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  Snacktastic Part II: the Snack AwakensEasttoMidwest
  7/17/13 3:26pm
  Maybe, but I don't think that explains it all. I know from what I saw, there is was this disinterest from most urban black kids about drugs —some of it is that they might be more risk averse because of higher consequences (your point is good) and some of it is just that it doesn't seem that interesting to them—I know that sounds weird, but they didn't romanticize it in the same way. I think in some ways, it's not so much like "Why don't black kids like hard drugs" because on the whole (granted there are lots of variations), it just seemed like healthier, more adaptive behavior, but rather, why do so many white kids do such crazy bullshit (often without legal consequences and minimal reaction from the people around them).
  
  I think for white private school kids—(I remember them at college), they have been sheltered enough that they do shit without thinking through the consequences, going to pricey rehabs when they are caught, often without the life ruining effects that it would have for other people.
  
  But for rural white kids, for white working class kids, I'm not sure. I grew up in a really white poor rural area with tons of alcoholism and rampant drug use (and a very high suicide rate). I remember people from urban areas would go up there and say they were shocked about how much more drug use there was there. Kids started often using drugs in like 3rd or 4th grade, graduating to heroin and other hard drugs before they get to high school. I also grew up knowing quite a few peers who died of drug and/or alcohol related charges, I know a couple of couples personally who died in murder/suicides (at least one fueled by alcohol) and a bunch other people who did all this shit to fuck their lives up but they still did TONS of drugs. Some went to jail—especially in my neighborhood, because we were kind of the bottom of the barrel people in our town (apparently, which is why I became a dedicated Marxist at like 12) but the amount of people that were jailed for such crazy bullshit was so rare compared to what I've seen from black kids who experimented with a little alcohol or smoke weed.
  
  Fuck, if they really wanted to wage war on drugs, they'd go to rural America. I know drugs are a problem in urban areas—sure, I've worked there for years, but man, rural America is positively flush with drug problems and no one is taking it seriously. It's more of a joke because it's white people, than it is a threat. But on the other hand, black people are completely vilified and then jailed, often supported by the same conservative rural white people that are doing tons of drugs in their own towns without any self reflection.
  
  So when Zimmerman's brother was making accusations that Martin was drug involved—besides having no proof and generally being an asshole— he shows himslef as having no understanding about who is doing drugs in this country to think that a black teenager would be a drug addict.
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corey3rdHamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:56pm
Would she call the cops on a white guy driving around the neighborhood in a UHaul. Cause what could he be doing that's so bad? He's a white guy with a conservative haircut.

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  Sparkle_Motioncorey3rd
  7/17/13 2:00pm
  What about a quiet graduate student just heading to the movies . . . .
  
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  corey3rdSparkle_Motion
  7/17/13 2:04pm
  Maybe people need to just realize that anyone that isn't you can be a mass murderer. Even your child should be a suspect.
  
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e30s2kHamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:53pm
As far as stupid stereotypes go, I believe a majority of high profile corporate fraud cases and financial malpractice have related to educated white males.

Dear readers of Gawker - do you have a job? If so, please make sure you suspect and accuse all white males you may come across in your professional life as potential fraudsters, and take all actions to bring them to justice. Are YOU an educated white male? You may be a fraudster...please beware, profile yourself, and exert justice on yourself immediately. It is only common sense.
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LadyMTLHamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:53pm
I just can't with this crap. I've been profiled before (most recently in Amsterdam when I was flying home) because I'm Middle-Eastern, and I remember how humiliated I felt and how it was like...why am I being singled out when no one else is? Why are they going through my purse and letting Mrs X, Y and Z waltz on by? And that was just for a pat down and a few extra questions! A part of me was saying "Look, this is post 9-11 and there's extra security everywhere, no need to get upset" but at the same time it was like "What the FUCK? Because my last name isn't Smith or Green you get the right to pull me aside in front of everyone and go through my bag?"

I cannot even IMAGINE how Trayvon Martin's family must feel knowing that not only are there asshats like Zimmerman out there, but there are apologists like Kathleen Parker running around too. By her logic we should technically be able to shoot anyone because someone of their race once committed a crime somewhere. Ugh.

ETA: For those who are curious...no, I don't wear a hijab (I'm Christian) and I'm very light skinned. So my theory is that they singled me out just based on my last name.
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  e30s2kLadyMTL
  7/17/13 2:28pm
  You know, I was flying from London to the US this past weekend and had a "random" screening at the gate as well - where they tapped me down (after I had already gone through security) and opened every pocket of my hand luggage and went through all my clothes and belongings. I politely went along with it with similar "oh, the post-9/11 world we live in" thoughts like yourself, but I've been thinking about it since too.
  
  I have a Portuguese last name but am from South Asia and have dark skin and a foreign first name..I'm assuming this is what they "selected" me on - of course I can't prove that. The next time this happens (I'm sure it will, this wasn't the first time) again I want to be extremely polite and cooperative about it, but insist that they show me documentation of the procedure upon which I was "randomly selected". Is there some random computerized process built in to their check-in system? Or is it based on "expert training" they've received? It would be very very sad if people are actually being professionally trained to be discriminatory against certain ethnic groups or characteristics...because of course, only minorities commit crimes.
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  GTCvDeimosLadyMTL
  7/17/13 2:37pm
  Heads up, try filing a complaint with the TSA. For the longest time, the TSA though my gf was a drug mule (not kidding. Hispanic woman, who frequently travels by herself throughout the US), and she finally filed a complaint. About a year later, we got a completely nonsensical letter on how the TSA doesn't really profile people, but we got your complaint. I wish I were joking, but the letter seriously had no conclusion or point at all (I kind of wish I could find it now... odds are, we burned it).
  
  But almost immediately after the complaint, she stopped getting searched. So... yay.
  
  Of course, the irony is that the TSA has a jihad against middle-eastern folks... so you may not have as much luck. but you know... no reason not to try.
  
  Also, you shouldn't have to justify yourself by saying you're not muslim, or mentioning your skin tone. That's like saying "oh, well I wasn't wearing a hoodie at night." Those facts are irrelevant, and I don't care what Florida says; you should look however you look, and wear whatever you wear without getting shot by a crazy person.
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AnnuitCoeptisHamilton Nolan
7/17/13 1:48pm
I think this whole saga has been a teachable moment for all of us. It should teach us that no matter how bad we want to think we live in a "post racial America", we are basically living in a early '70's social structure with internet access.
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  forcornsakeAnnuitCoeptis
  7/17/13 2:04pm
  Or the Antebellum period. Take your pick.
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  JohninLAAnnuitCoeptis
  7/17/13 2:09pm
  I think America most certainly has evolved a bit. However, technology has evolved as well, giving a voice and platform to those for whom Darwinism left behind. Occasionally, these lesser evolved species get the media spotlight, such as when six of them happen to serve on a jury of national import.
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