Kinja reply list

Discussion

Read More
HashTagYoloisbackHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 1:12pm
Actually, why do so many grown adults raise their children to believe that life is a meritocracy? Is this some sort of common parenting tactic? What purpose does it serve? Is this a common belief among people of that generation? If so, how and why did they fall into it?
Reply
- Read More
  KatieInAtlantaHashTagYoloisback
  6/17/13 1:24pm
  I think it's probably less depressing than raising your kids with a "hey, it's all whether you were born with some fancy pants wealthy parents and that's not us!" attitude.
  Reply
- Read More
  Wheezer801HashTagYoloisback
  6/17/13 1:34pm
  Because a lot of us were raised by a generation of people who could work summers to pay for a year's worth of college tuition, who could find a job that paid a decent wage and offered benefits, who could buy a house for a reasonable amount of money. So they figured "If you work hard, you'll succeed!" passed the message on to their kids and didn't realize that the world where decent pay and reasonably priced college educations and affordable housing doesn't exist anymore. And they have the gall to call people who want those things "entitled".
  
  My parents are Boomers. I was raised with the expectation that I would go get a college education and as long as I did well, "kept my nose to the grindstone" (one of my dad's favorite phrases), and made all the "right" choices, I'd be ok. Well, I did all those things. Luckily, I've ended up ok and employed, but I've also ended up with so much student loan debt that having a family or a house is never going to happen for me. I'm in no way complaining - I know I'm damn lucky. I also know that there are no guarantees - I could be laid off tomorrow or fired or get sick or whatever. Hard work to get somewhere is only a part of success. These days it's more dumb luck than anything else.
  Reply
Read More
NimelennarHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 12:56pm
"This week marks the next-to-last regular installment of our true stories of unemployment."

Wait. What? Why?
Reply
- Read More
  Hamilton NolanNimelennar
  6/17/13 12:57pm
  We are going to wrap up the series at 40. We'll enable it to continue in some form, but it won't be weekly like this.
  Reply
- Read More
  kemperboydHamilton Nolan
  6/17/13 1:45pm
  Hamilton, I know you got a lot of stick for this feature but I've really enjoyed it. I supposed enjoyed is the wrong word, I've found it heartbreaking and difficult and important. Every edition reminds you how many people are still struggling even when you yourself has managed to find work (I did 18 months of unemployment after university). I'm sad it's ending but I understand.
  Reply
Read More
NotSoUglyHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 12:50pm
"My parents raised me to believe that life was a meritocracy." They made a tragic mistake. And I am sorry that they did.

I am from a family that has been raising college and graduate school graduates for four generations. That's a pretty long time. At NO point, were any of us told that if we worked hard, we would make it. My parents, in their 80's, and very well educated, were never told that hard work and education would nearly always mean success or even food on the table. This was the case despite the fact that our family has been solidly middle to upper middle class for nearly 100 years. It's also the reason why we are all Democrats who believe in the social safety net. Only self-loathing fools who are middle class vote for Republicans.

But there are moves that have inevitably helped my large family. No one in my family has had to pay his or her way through college, and I have five brothers and sisters. This lack of student debt is almost like winning the lottery. But, unlike many people who comment at Gawker, we do not believe that state schools are a shameful choice. Graduating from say, the University of Iowa or Illinois have been the educations offered and accepted in my family and the people who we know. Also, we entirely willing to live in flyover country. There really are jobs out here, people.

I also advise college students at a university that almost entirely serves first-generation college students, many of them non-white. Many of them commute and live with their single mothers, or they are the children of Mexican or East Asian immigrants. They graduate with about $10,000-$15,000 debt. Very manageable. They get good jobs, too. They wouldn't take out $200,000 for undergraduate school for any reason.
Reply
- Read More
  GreetingsFromHothNotSoUgly
  6/17/13 1:45pm
  I was on board until the unnecessary Republican bashing. It makes you look petty and invalidates your credibility.Don't get me wrong, I am not a member of their party, but to act as if Democrats are really any different and/or better is asinine. Different sides of the same rusty coin, my friend.
  Reply
- Read More
  RussianistNotSoUgly
  6/17/13 2:23pm
  If your parents are in their 80s, they have some living memory of the Great Depression, when no-one was safe and when debt (assuming you could get credit in the first place) meant worrying about a lot more than late fees on a credit card statement. That you see that same attitude in the immigrant parents of the students you advise makes sense.
  
  The parents of these letter writers are usually native-born citizens in their late 50s and early 60s, who were born on world history's third base and have convinced themselves they hit a triple.
  Reply
Read More
KatieInAtlantaHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 12:47pm
My personal lowest point was when I got passed up for a job in retail. Retail. Nothing tells you that you are worthless more than "we don't think your capable of operating a cash register or folding clothes".

I think the employers are actually thinking, "You're too good for this job and you'll off and leave as soon as you get a better offer which should be relatively soon!" I never understood this because an awesome employee for several months is better than a crappy employee for a longer period of time.
Reply
- Read More
  Arctic16KatieInAtlanta
  6/17/13 12:55pm
  I was a manager at Target for about a year after college (thank god I sacked up and quit to find a job with a future that didn't involve waking up at 4 am) and you'd be wrong on that. While I agree with you, from a business standpoint an average employee that stays a while is much better than a great one that is temporary. Finding a new employee involves holes in the schedule, HR people reviewing applications, rounds of interviews, and that's all before actually hiring someone and training them and hoping they don't quit after a bit. The loss of efficiency is too great a risk. It's better to hire someone who has a chance of sticking around.
  
  And you're right in thinking that that's exactly what people in retail think: this person is overqualified, no point in hiring them because they'll bail as soon as they can. And it's the truth, I saw it happen multiple times in one year.
  
  TLDR: Don't work in retail.
  Reply
- Read More
  chimingin2020KatieInAtlanta
  6/17/13 12:57pm
  quick tip, you tailor your resumes for the part-time retail and food service.
  
  I.e. I leave almost everything out of it, and leave just a few customer service experiences on a single page with some notable key points.
  Reply
Read More
TheMightyCornholioHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 12:30pm
It's sad that we live in a world where people who want to work cant find a decent job. Myself being one of the chronically under-employed, I still maintain hope that things will get better.

I think for a bunch of people out there, hope is all we have left.
Reply
- Read More
  RussianistTheMightyCornholio
  6/17/13 2:32pm
  I don't like to dash hope, but hope is not a plan and I'm afraid it's going to get worse. I don't think Americans truly understand how many jobs can and will be automated and/or outsourced. I really don't know what's going to happen to people who don't have a substantive grasp of the technology and systems that underlie and increasingly govern their jobs, because in a startling number of cases those technologies and systems are soon going to consume the jobs themselves.
  Reply
- Read More
  BlackTwizzlerTheMightyCornholio
  6/18/13 6:00am
  I am truly sorry for everything you're enduring. Without even knowing the details I know it sucks and it's unfair, because I know a million people plus a few more whose lives suck right now and it's unfair and they're talented and amazing people. And I send you this to make you laugh. It's a quote from The Killing on AMC, a show I enjoy because it makes me appreciate that at least I'm not a teenage hooker getting decapitated. It could be worse. :D
  
  Reply
Read More
dollyrkrHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 1:03pm
I just want to comment on the lady who put herself $80K into student loan debt and then MOVED TO A SMALL SOUTHERN TOWN and is surprised she can't find a job. Look, your degree says You Follow Where The Jobs Are. You don't get to choose where you live until you succeed at your career. Everyone else I have empathy for, but darlin I hope you read this - you need to move to a CITY, a real city. Preferably nowhere near the South, where education goes to die and is mocked and unappreciated. (say I'm generalizing all you want, I don't care about the people who will comment that rhetoric of "blah blah exceptions") the fact is, move to Where The Job Is.

My hunch is you have followed your husband to where HIS job is. And THAT is the problem. Look your youth goes by much faster than you can imagine right now. Your career needs to be prioritized. You are never going to pay back that $80K in a town that doesn't have jobs other than fast food! Get real. Get OUT of the South. Go to a real city. Apply for jobs across the country and relocate. You husband can follow YOU, since wherever you go, he can find a job since it'll be a real economy. America is huge, don't be so myopic. You only get to say you don't want to have to relocate when you're old and have kids or something, but when you're just starting out, you don't move to a small Southern town and then act surprised when you can't find a six-figure job. Oh, and there is no "god in heaven" - this is your life, your choices, so OWN IT. Make it happen girl.
Reply
- Read More
  KatieInAtlantadollyrkr
  6/17/13 2:12pm
  I agree with your general argument, but I think her husband is in the military so he can't pick up and move.
  Reply
- Read More
  leggomypoptarrdollyrkr
  6/17/13 2:57pm
  just curious have you ever been to the south besides stopping to pee and get a burger at Wendy's on your way driving through? Because that seems to be what you're describing. There is absolutely meteoric job growth in a lot of Southern cities right now, and advice like yours is not only ignorant but damaging. I agree that jobs tend not to be in small towns, but that goes for any part of the country.
  Reply
Read More
talktotalktoHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 12:58pm
I feel for those that feel dejected after supposedly taking the right "path" in life, via college and such... which brings us to the problem. College is basically an antiquated concept that only thrives because of the ridiculous system we've put in place, that honors arbitrary courses and subjective evaluation in some sort of validation of being "smart." I went to a big, white, upper middle class suburban school district and from day one we were instilled the concept of going to college, getting white collar jobs, 2 car garage, etc. School was a place to gain these "tools" to become good ol' lawyers, accountants, and other stuff rich white people do other than manual labor. You got good grades, and followed these ideal "steps," and you gracefully land into adulthood securely in the middle class. That reality might have existed 40-50 years ago but the days of college truly being a bridge to job security and high wages are long gone, despite what the some clueless counselors might tell you. Yes there's fields like Medicine and Engineering that tend to be more integrated with formal education, but those are generally the exception. Colleges are bureaucracies there to perpetuate their own existence and increasingly pat themselves on the back with vanity projects like luxury dorms and new sports venues. They also are way too big and slow to adapt to the modern job market, meaning they are usually just chasing the last bubble in terms of hot degrees and in-demand skills. Unfortunately the reality is a lot more abstract these days in terms of the experience and skills that really make you employable to any particular job.
Reply
- Read More
  S_T_Rtalktotalkto
  6/17/13 2:00pm
  The problem isn't that 'College is antiquated'. The problem is that college IS NOT and WAS NEVER a job training program. It doesn't work when you view it as a checklist towards graduation. You're missing the point if you stop learning when you fulfill a requirement. College was designed to teach you HOW to think, how to recognize bullshit arguments and how form your own opinions on new subjects. In short, how to become the well rounded intellectuals which are necessary for a democracy to function.
  
  It was the job of apprenticeships and corporate ladders to teach the "hows" of the world. Unfortunately, companies refuse to take any responsibility for their employees, and want perfect off-the-shelf employees that they get to try out for free in internships. No training program, or mentoring. So now colleges are expected to fill all these roles, but can't, because every business is different and colleges can't be training camps for individual firms. It's the wrong tool for the wrong job.
  
  Don't criticize a screwdriver just because it makes a bad hammer. You're the one doing it wrong.
  Reply
- Read More
  VeryShinyLikeAHoliday2S_T_R
  6/17/13 7:02pm
  
  It was the job of apprenticeships and corporate ladders to teach the "hows" of the world. Unfortunately, companies refuse to take any responsibility for their employees, and want perfect off-the-shelf employees that they get to try out for free in internships. No training program, or mentoring. So now colleges are expected to fill all these roles, but can't, because every business is different and colleges can't be training camps for individual firms. It's the wrong tool for the wrong job.
  
  Amen. Unpaid internships used to be low-paying bottom-rung-on-the-corporate-ladder jobs. As my mom put it when I was hired for my first job in 2002 (public sector, not rich but living wage, with benefits, related to my psych degree), "They bought your brain." Entry-level used to actually mean entry-level - the notion that people should just work for free for YEARS as though it doesn't cost money to live is just nonsense. People defend unpaid internships (which is baffling to me, even if you had a good experience - if given the choice between getting paid and not getting paid, why would you pick not getting paid? At least acknowledge that the practice is exploitative as fuck) and say they learned so much and met good people - but companies used to actually pay you to learn on the job. Maybe they didn't pay well, but they didn't expect you to work for actually, literally nothing.
  Reply
Read More
BurnerIsHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 1:51pm
Pretty much everyone but the girl on the far left is using the age old method of reverse psychology.

If I dress like shit, I'm sure to get hired.

Reply
- Read More
  APersonaBurnerIs
  6/17/13 3:32pm
  Relevant: http://gawker.com/we-can-discuss…
  Reply
- Read More
  BurnerIsAPersona
  6/17/13 4:18pm
  No, it's not relevant at all.
  
  If you're an adult and you don't have at least one good suit / set of professional clothing then you've officially done the last 25-30 years wrong.
  
  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index…
  
  http://jobsearch.about.com/od/interviewsn…
  
  http://jobsearch.about.com/od/interviewat…
  
  http://www.wikihow.com/Dress-for-an-I…
  Reply
Read More
ETPhoneHome12Hamilton Nolan
6/17/13 2:36pm
I can begin to understand the struggle mentioned in these stories, but I graduated 3 years ago 6 months after the collapse, landed a job, and to be completely honest, don't know a single person with whom I graduated with that did not land a job... Even friends and colleagues who decided to switch industries after a year or two were able to place jobs. Friends that weren't able to started their own initiatives with people they met at Meetup groups, and were able to create jobs going this route. My mother, who is a Physical Therapist (falling into the 50+ category of people) has landed multiple part times in and around Detroit. I mention Detroit because we like to use it as the poster child of the death of the dream, but her, as well as my 20-something friends are all doing well there.

I started my own consulting business 2 years ago, put in an enormous amount of hours and sacrifices, paid for my own health, dental, business insurance, but I realized that if I wanted to be make something of my college degree, it wasn't going to be handed out in a mediocre job (that I would inevitably be unsatisfied with).

Start to dream again, there's plenty of successful ventures out there if you expand your radar and use some ingenuity. The publishing editorial house not working? Funnell that energy into applying at a startup. Find a different opportunity. Writing Gawker columns, while a free self therapy session, is not going move you forward.
Reply
- Read More
  A. Nonie MeusETPhoneHome12
  6/17/13 3:12pm
  There is a bit of a disconnect in these stories. The only people submitting stories are the ones in dire straits - it doesn't mean they represent the entire population. In fact, the unemployment rate for college grads is a lot lower than for non-grads. It's still higher than where it should be, but this image we have been given of tens of thousands of BA holders on bread lines (or wasting away as baristas) is really not accurate. I also graduated relatively recently and no one I know has been unemployed for any length of time either. Anecdotes aren't data, but this experience tracks with what's happening in the real world.
  
  Unfortunately, poor people without GEDs don't necessarily read Gawker or contribute personal essays.
  Reply
Read More
BlackTwizzlerHamilton Nolan
6/17/13 2:56pm
Guess it's fitting that it ends on 40. That's all anyone in this series was begging for — 40 hours a week (or less, negotiable!) to do a job. When did that become too much to hope for in the grand old USA? Thanks for not letting anyone forget how fucked-up things are out there. This series felt like a blast of truth in a bullshit world. I will miss it.
Reply
- Read More
  APersonaBlackTwizzler
  6/18/13 1:39am
  Bravo. Well said.
  Reply
- Read More
  BlackTwizzlerAPersona
  6/18/13 5:29am
  Thanks. That's kind of you to say. Isn't kindness a fucking miracle anymore? This series makes me emotional. Which I appreciate, because most of the time my fellow human beings make me kinda ill, y'know. But I read every single fricking one of these stories and I felt connected to real people and I cared about them, even the ones who you could tell were full of shit. Nobody's perfect and who can untangle what part of our lives is choice and which part was just a speeding train we got shoved in front of. It seems like a lot of people in these stories were willing to say "OK! It was all my fault! I did this wrong and this wrong and wasn't smart about X and was naive about Y..." They're willing to shoulder the blame for the fact that they can't find a job and health insurance and then their lives turn to shit and everything starts to slide and they question their own worth as human beings. All of them. It isn't until Gawker started printing them side by side that you go Hmmmm how can all of these people from all across the country all with different backgrounds and education levels and job categories all be personally responsible for having the exact same problem?
  Reply