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Bones of a HareHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 1:26pm

only my friend who got smoked w the rifle and I have college degrees though (and now he's gone) That said, there are plenty of guys I like a lot. Nobody else is as educated,

If he represents the level of "education"...

In all seriousness, as a non-USA citizen, I ask: could any of these cadets become high ranking officers at some point? I have no idea how the USA army/marine corps work. Could someone with this man's finesse end up as, say, head of Homeland Security or something?
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  Hamilton NolanBones of a Hare
  5/21/13 1:38pm
  Absolutely. Although not president, because you have to have DODGED military service to get there.
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  Graby SauceBones of a Hare
  5/21/13 1:43pm
  He's in officer candidate school, so basically he has been tagged as eligible to be an officer. Marines are trained to be gung-ho, die hard killing machines. They are the first to be deployed when there is conflict and are known for their toughness, singlemindedness, and loyalty.
  
  In answer to your question, yes, Marine officers have the capability of being high ranking decisionmakers, though more likely in DOD than DHS (civilians are more likely to head both depts in any case). I've worked with Marine officers and they are fine. Very direct and less nuanced than Navy officers, but intelligent and professional.
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bipolar-copHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 1:30pm
Former Marine here...

The Marine Corps is jungle rules. If you can't take being called a "faggot" or "terrorist", you probably should not have joined.

Doesn't sound like the kid who wrote the letter is at all fazed by this, he was just reporting what goes on.

Going back to the "faggot" stuff, yeah I'll grant you it is probably not the wisest move on the part of these DIs but fuck people, we are training kids for fucking WAR. If someone is gay and joins up and gets all butt-hurt (seriously no pun intended there) because the DIs are using the word faggot, how the fuck are you going to function in combat?

In short, my feeling is that anyone in this platoon of recruits, gay or straight, who can't get past this is a fricken sea-lawyer and should never have joined. Its the gawdamn Marines, not the boy scouts (maybe I intended a pun there). My personal feeling on the repeal of DADT is "about fucking time". But if you can't deal with some name calling, get the fuck out.

I was in boot camp during the lead up to Gulf War 1. We had an Indian kid getting called rag-head (in the middle-east context), EVERYONE knew it was the DIs just doing their thing and I spoke to the dude and he knew it as well, did not care.

Now when the DIs start singling out known gay kids and giving them special attention, come talk to me, and even then I might say "no big deal" depending on the nature of the act (or I could say "hang the DIs by the fricken yard-arm").

In some contexts, you have to say "they are JUST words" and let it go. USMC boot camp is one of them.
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  bipolar-copbipolar-cop
  5/21/13 1:46pm
  Oh, and by the content of the letter, I think this dude's boot camp experience is WAY more fun than mine. It sounds like he will come out of this with some AWESOME stories, which is pretty much half of what boot camp is all about after all.
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  Saposcat3bipolar-cop
  5/21/13 1:53pm
  But it precisely isn't jungle rules, despite your rhetoric. People get thrown in the brig, there are codes of justice, and an entire hierarchy, and the result of all of it is this. If it were 'jungle rules," the fellow would not be punished for smacking the other recruit with a rifle. It is a stupid, brutal system, and one that is the antithesis of democracy, though it is forever being justified as it supposedly protects democracy. Still, one gets tired of you proponents of militarism, who are only needed because of the militaristic idiots from other countries and cultures as well.
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lobstrHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 1:33pm
I know they defend this bullshit as a way to toughen men and all that, but Jesus, you have a kid of (purported) Indian heritage who wants to serve our country, and this shitbag does all he can to make him regret that decision. Kinda makes you wonder if that kinda shit is what made Major Nidal Hasan [Fort Hood Shooter] crack — fuckers should be a little more careful.
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  gen_roxlobstr
  5/21/13 1:49pm
  Devil (Dog) Advocate here; What makes you so sure he regrets it?
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  lobstrgen_rox
  5/21/13 1:56pm
  Because I had chicken tikka with him last week and he told me.
  
  I said "does all he can to make him regret.." .. didn't say I knew for a fact he regretted.. c'mon, now...
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icicleicicleHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 1:18pm
Delightful. All of it. Just dandy and peachy. Recruits taught the finer points of hate speech from the second they get there. No wonder there's so much sexual assault in the military; that shit comes from the top.

It has become very controversial to be opposed to the military these days, but certainly this is not above reproach. It can't be. We can respect those who serve while also holding their leadership accountable for completely unacceptable shit like this, right? Just because military service is highly respected doesn't mean that this is okay. It's not. And it makes me angry.
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  j3rfonicicleicicle
  5/21/13 1:25pm
  No, this is stupid. The marine DI's use every available insult on every recruit, at all times. These guys just have a few more insults available to be used on them. The DI does this to instill into the recruit that until training ends, they are sub human garbage, and it's the DI's job to turn them into the brutal killing machines known as US marines. The marines have no need for someone who gets upset when someone calls them nasty names, as the locals in Iraq and Afghanistan have much worse things to say about them.
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  icicleiciclej3rfon
  5/21/13 1:33pm
  I'm sorry, but its not acceptable. I don't care what they are being trained for. Hate speech should not be welcomed, tolerated, or accepted in the US military, especially in light of the fact that sexual assault and gay bashing is a huge problem. You certainly wouldn't advocate for these DI's to call their black recruits the n word, now would you?
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lobstrHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 2:17pm
60 years later...

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  Paul_Dlobstr
  5/21/13 2:39pm
  Cannot be unseen.
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  lobstrPaul_D
  5/21/13 3:29pm
  Indeed... amusement park marketers know how to melt your mind.
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fadaroHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 3:36pm
I'm Indian. It offends me that this is the 'training' you Americans give to the kids in your military before forcibly unleashing them on the rest of the world. EVEN CIVILIANS ARE BROWN IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN. It's not just the terrorists. CIVILIANS ARE BROWN TOO. I am brown. Thankfully I live in New York, where these brainwashed gorillas are not a part of my life. If I see them at all where I live, it's usually homeless and powerless under a bridge somewhere. I used to feel like it was so sad and so wrong when I saw vets in distress like that... but I'm beginning to rethink my sympathies, after reading this. Maybe it's for the best that people who are taught to be racist, homophobic and uncivilized should not return to be my neighbor. I don't think I would feel safe around them.
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lobstrHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 1:33pm
Curious what that guy would say to a Jew ...
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  iqewbvoe34ggs93blobstr
  5/21/13 1:40pm
  we will never know.
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  lobstriqewbvoe34ggs93b
  5/21/13 1:57pm
  I'm tempted to enlist to find out. Private Moishe Goldenschwartz reporting for duty, sir!
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66ImpalaHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 1:17pm
Military-issued glasses look like your creepy uncle's old pair from the 1970s.
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  _Redshirt66Impala
  5/21/13 1:21pm
  God, they're the fucking worst. When we got town leave the last day of basic, we were told we still had to wear them while in public, and if we got seen in our civilian glasses we'd be in huge trouble.
  
  A couple guys "accidentally" broke theirs, and just went out with their families and squinted the whole time.
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  lobstr66Impala
  5/21/13 1:26pm
  Yeah, there's something kinda degrading about them; but then again, I guess it would be counter to the military if they allowed those quasi-emo hipster ironic black-rimmed glasses...
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rltw173Hamilton Nolan
5/21/13 2:14pm
I was never a marine, I was a soldier. And I'm sure a few douche marines will say I don't know. But it's really the same shit. But this is meant to toughen you. Grow the fuck up, don't take yourself too seriously. Black people are regularly called the n bomb. Ugly people are constantly reminded of such. This is the crux of the entire argument about integrating the services completely. People say "I don't want the standards to change for me! I can do anything you can do." Ok, well fucking put your money where your mouth is and take the abuse. Everyone gets brutalized verbally. I can't wait for the first reports of women serving in combat units.
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  rltw173rltw173
  5/21/13 2:20pm
  and I think it extremely interesting that the marine email mentions denigration against Indians and African Americans but it is not at all mentioned in the headlines. Nor the fact that the Indians and African Americans are probably laughing with everyone when this is said. I know I'VE BEEN THERE!!!!! If you haven't I could give a fuck less about your opinion. This is the military culture. You won't understand.
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  Maxine Shaw, attorney at LOLrltw173
  5/21/13 3:46pm
  Also a soldier, and the only people running around calling black people the n word were bigots like you. Why? Because the enlisted ranks - especially E-6 and below - are VASTLY made of people of color, and blacks in particular. Your platoon leader? Black. First Sergeant? Always black - it's practically a rule. XO? Black. Drill sergeants? Black. Female drill sergeants? I've only met one in my entire life who WASN'T black. So you either enlisted back in 19-dickety-two, or you're just a bad liar.
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araucaniadHamilton Nolan
5/21/13 8:45pm
This is really great "slice of life" stuff. I appreciate Hamilton Nolan's efforts to get "real people's" stories into Gawker - the unemployment stories, the letters from Death Row, etc. I get it.

I disagree with the commenters who object to the humiliation tactics employed during boot camp.

When I was a little kid I dreamed of joining the Navy. I was in the U.S. Naval Sea Cadets for several years. Did a two-week long summer bootcamp when I was 14, in fact. There wasn't the same level of abuse as described in this letter, but there was intimidation, bullying, and humiliation.

Listen, people: it's psychology. It's absolutely about breaking you down and building you back up. It's about training people to follow orders. It's about training people to do heinous things they don't want to do. It's about building esprit de corps and making group loyalty and obedience to authority stronger than an individual's own thinking.

You think you can change America for the better by making the military change the way it trains recruits? Nonsense! Let's invest our energy in something better: oppose America's foreign policy establishment. Let's build a new American foreign policy where we don't run bases in dozens of countries around the world, let's work for a multipolar world with strong multilateral institutions, where we get other powers to pursue positive-sum solutions. Let's fight against Monsanto, the film industry, agribusiness, and other corporate interests who all instrumentalize American imperialism for their own ends. Social democracy at home and abroad: once we have that, we won't need the Marine Corps anymore. If you're not willing to look at the bigger picture, it isn't worth opposing the symptomatic ills.
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