Kinja reply list

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TruthHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 12:38pm
My sister in law makes close to six figures as a public school teacher. Despite this fact, her Facebook posts are as sanctimonious as ever.
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  Flying Squid (I hate me more than you do.)Truth
  8/11/16 12:39pm
  I thought you’re supposed to talk about how your sister-in-law makes six figures working from home.
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  TruthFlying Squid (I hate me more than you do.)
  8/11/16 12:40pm
  Only in the summers.
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NefertittiesHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 12:48pm
It’s not the money that provokes most of us to leave the profession. The money isn’t bad and the raises are consistent. The health and retirement benefits are solid. It’s when very bad administrative supervisors are telling us how to do our jobs when they haven’t been in a classroom themselves in ages. And it’s parents telling us how to do our jobs when they haven’t been in a classroom ever.
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  OutoftimeNefertitties
  8/11/16 12:50pm
  I disagree. I left because of the money.
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  ╰(　´◔　ω　◔ `)╯< Woke and BokeNefertitties
  8/11/16 12:51pm
  Admit it, it’s also that stupid parents have stupid kids and it’s an irreversible trend. Those of us smart enough to be smart should just abandon ship.
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HoldMeCloserTonyDanzigHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 12:59pm
Okay, I’ll bite, but only because I was having this conversation with a group of NYC teachers yesterday: you have to account for the 2.5 months off in the summer. You take the $1094 and divide by (12/9.5) and you get right at $1400. For the months that they are working, they get paid roughly flat to all college grads. Put differently, If I got June/July/Aug off, I’d expect to get paid less. Plus they get nice pension packages which nobody private sector gets anymore.

Now that said, teaching fucking sucks for 250 other different reasons (kids/parents/parents/parents/parents/administration/etc), but it is worthwhile to take a good look at the numbers.
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  Tom Glavine only has 1 dongHoldMeCloserTonyDanzig
  8/11/16 1:15pm
  The time off thing has been debunked many times. That you’ve chosen not to accept it does not make it untrue.
  
  The article itself addresses the pension issue when it points out that even with benefits included (fyi - this means pension) teachers still make 11% less than similar experienced and credentialed folks.
  
  Schools need to be year round. Morons will never stop using the lie of “summers off” to excuse lower pay. Let’s teach year round, and shut this nonsense down.
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  next time i'll be deadly serious next timeHoldMeCloserTonyDanzig
  8/11/16 1:18pm
  Is it really June/July/Aug in most cases, though? My partner teaches and only gets June and July off. I, on the other hand, get 5 weeks PTO, so there’s only a 3 week difference for substantially less pay (I realize 5 weeks PTO isn’t the norm).
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Low Information BoaterHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 12:41pm
If you want to make it as a teacher, all you need to do is create an individual learning plan for each student based on their parents' ideological and religious leanings. Is that really so hard?
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  Sobchak SecurityLow Information Boater
  8/11/16 12:43pm
  Eh. That sounds too hard. Can’t we just teach them stuff out of the Bible?
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  Low Information BoaterSobchak Security
  8/11/16 12:45pm
  Ideally we’d transmit the collective knowledge of our peoples through song and interpretive dance. But if you really just have to read, the bible is best.
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festivusaziliHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 12:43pm
We also do not teach teachers how to teach prior to them becoming teachers.
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  Ginger Is A Constructfestivusazili
  8/11/16 12:49pm
  “You’ve been a student for years! Just do...like...the opposite of that!”
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  festivusaziliGinger Is A Construct
  8/11/16 12:59pm
  You’re a history prof, right? Did they give you any hand-holding or just throw you right to the wolves?
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Sobchak SecurityHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 12:40pm
We don’t want any talented people to be cops or politicians either. Talented people are only allowed to business.

Which is why President Business will usher in a new era of not learning. Its the American way. If we don’t know about stuff, its not real. Knowing stuff is for suckers or Mexicans or whoever anyway. There’s stuff on TV. Who can learn when there’s stuff on TV?
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  pre-emptive sighSobchak Security
  8/11/16 12:42pm
  
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  Sobchak Securitypre-emptive sigh
  8/11/16 12:43pm
  Did Donny get himself a new hat?
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SoapBoxcarWillieHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 12:55pm
If unions would stick to focusing on raising compensation and benefits for their members, I think that most people would look at the situation differently. We do need to pay our teachers more, and that in itself will help attract more qualified candidates. However, many union goals (like seniority-based, as opposed to merit-based pay, the opposition to a better system of teacher evaluation) are antithetical to creating any sort of meritocracy, which also deters more talented people from wanting to be teachers—why should they work hard when there are people earning more than they do that don’t work nearly as hard.

Regardless of your beliefs about unions, you have to admit they have a major image problem. They are no longer seen by many as advocating for better pay and working conditions for their workers, but instead as large political organizations that find strength in numbers and protect the worst of their members from discipline and/or termination. Liberals have less trouble saying these things about police unions when they protect “bad cops”, but these issues apply to all or most public sector unions.

Many people will say that we shouldn’t let a few bad apples spoil the whole bushel, and I do believe that many if not most teachers and cops are good people who want to do a good job. But you can only tolerate bad behavior for so long before you become complicit in it. And besides, if we’re talking about such a small minority of “bad teachers” and “bad cops”, then it should be easy to get rid of them. There are some teachers that just shouldn’t be teachers, and some cops that just shouldn’t be cops—let’s be proactive about removing them, rather than reacting when the damage has already been done.
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  jezbannedSoapBoxcarWillie
  8/11/16 1:14pm
  Re: seniority and merit based pay. Teaching is like many professions. All other things equal, the more experience you gain, the better you will be at your job. At the same time, you surely understand the problem with merit-based systems - basing someone’s salary on something inherently subjective, especially when many evaluations of teaching ability come from immature kids and ignorant parents, and can be used by administrators as a way to hold down teacher pay.
  
  I don’t have a problem with police unions insisting on due process and fair investigations into officers’ alleged misconduct. I have a problem with police unions that attempt to actively shield culpable people from deserved consequences.
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  Slow MutantSoapBoxcarWillie
  8/11/16 1:42pm
  Well said. The vast majority of teachers (and cops) are good at their job and want to do it well. But the bad ones will ruin (or, in the case of cops, actually end) lives. A bad teacher can make a kid not want to learn. Short of actually hitting them, that may be the worst thing a teacher can do.
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XkjacobHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 1:02pm
I was courted by recruiters for DISD and RISD for job opportunities.

55k start, college debt forgiveness, 3months off a year, healthcare in the compensation package and some other benefits (special loans).

... Hi, i’m a college graduate and those are some insane benefits for a job that is easier than my current one.

Still debating it.
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  caekislove-caekingitupXkjacob
  8/11/16 1:57pm
  Have fun getting stabbed in the neck by a tweaked out crack baby, because those college debt forgiveness programs always require working 2+ years in the most run-down and violent school settings you can possibly imagine.
  
  If you’re male, they’ll probably make you coach sports too, so get ready for 60-hour work weeks and work on Saturdays and Sundays. As for your big 3 months off: Have you heard of summer school? Because, as a newbie, you’ll have to work that shit too (for no additional pay).
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  Lady CommentariatXkjacob
  8/11/16 2:06pm
  Have you spent any time in a classroom since you left school yourself? I highly recommend volunteering for for a couple hours a week over a month before you commit.
  
  There’s a reason there’s super-high turnover in this profession, and it’s worse in the hard-to-staff schools. And let me tell you: it’s not just the shitty teachers who leave; good teachers leave too, albeit for different reasons.
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anonymousbydesignHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 12:43pm
Before I care I want to know if this is adjusted on a per month basis to account for 3 months where teachers can get side jobs or do fuck all.
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  Whodoyouthinkyouarebjornnitmo?anonymousbydesign
  8/11/16 12:49pm
  You mean that unpaid three months during which professional development training and other school related unpaid yet required work is done?
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  Ginger Is A Constructanonymousbydesign
  8/11/16 12:53pm
  THREE MONTHS? I wish!!!! My partner teaches highschool, during the school year he leaves at 7am and rarely returns before 6pm. He grades and lessonplans every night but Friday and Saturday night, often putting in hours of work on Sundays. Their school year went until mid-June, then they had another week of meetings. He headed back to work again this week. So, 6 weeks of summer? After a year of working 70+ hours a week? And he spent the “summer” writing letters of recommendation and taking a graduate school class so he can earn another teaching degree and get paid more eventually.
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LeNoceurHamilton Nolan
8/11/16 1:09pm
Teaching, similar in some ways to the nonprofit sector, draws in people who are doing it “for the love” or for a cause. They are willing to take less money than counterparts in other industries with similar education because they believe in the work they are doing—it’s not a “job” like working for Wells Fargo or Macy’s. No one goes into teaching expecting to get rich, or even upper-middle class. I mean, best case scenario in public education is that you work your way up into a low-six-figures job as a superintendent. Probably 90+ percent of teachers would tell you they NEVER want to be a superintendent. It’s just a totally different incentive structure, so comparing it to corporate jobs doesn’t really tell the story.
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  Tom Glavine only has 1 dongLeNoceur
  8/11/16 1:27pm
  This is a dumb post.
  
  That teacher’s and nonprofit folks CARE about stuff should not be a defense of paying them poorly. That our instinct as a society is to value Wells Fargo and Macy’s employees over people who have chosen to help others... and you see nothing odd about that ... is crazy pants insane.
  
  Congratulations. You’re part of the problem.
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  DriveByCommentsLeNoceur
  8/11/16 1:28pm
  Many people in corporate jobs love what they do as well.
  
  Warm feelings are nice, but they don’t pay off student loans or pay the electric bill.
  
  Just because there is no expectation of high wages or peer level wages based on educational attainment, doesn’t mean that you should step all over the position or devalue it to the point where it hurts the quality of education and the future workforce in all fields.
  
  Right now, the cost of entry into teaching is high and the compensation in many places is low and stagnant. There is little incentive to do it and you do have a lot of people chasing administrative rolls in order to get a bump that would never come from the classroom, even though they have zero interest in administration.
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