Kinja reply list

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Sean BrodyHamilton Nolan
6/22/16 9:42am
Babies are a great idea.
If you hate money, free time and sleep.
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  ExtremeModerateSean Brody
  6/22/16 9:45am
  And your marriage.
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  NoneSean Brody
  6/22/16 9:45am
  Also if you love vomit, poo, and screaming.
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ReburnsABurningReturnsHamilton Nolan
6/22/16 9:55am
You know, now that you mention it, I think I’m going to start a political party that is dedicated to the idea that people who don’t have kids shouldn’t get social security when they retire. You don’t want to contribute to making the pyramid function properly? Fine. Then you get thrown off of it. The notion that social security is about what you contribute to it is silly. Do we think that the SSTF started funding itself from the contributions of Great Depression era retirees?

Ha, that’s cute.
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  Ryan CoolesReburnsABurningReturns
  6/22/16 10:01am
  You think we have a problem now with people having children they can’t afford to raise? I’m sure dangling free money at the end of their lives won’t make them NOT want to have them..I’ll gladly step off the pyramid, though I was born with a chronic illness so I get money regardless, though I’m also trying to start my own business so I can get the fuck off, which most people don’t do..
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  HalperMonkeyReburnsABurningReturns
  6/22/16 10:08am
  yeah, thatll show us
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davidberrebyHamilton Nolan
6/22/16 9:49am
Wow, very enlightening! Who would want to have a family when instead they could live comfortably for years and then die alone on a pile of money?
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  EvenBaggierTrousers4davidberreby
  6/22/16 9:53am
  That’s a compelling argument.
  
  For having a pile of money on hand.
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  Burt-Rodeodavidberreby
  6/22/16 9:59am
  Having kids =\ not dying alone
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TraceHamilton Nolan
6/22/16 9:59am
Shit man, I just have a niece and that’s already been expensive because the little fucker is adorable as hell and makes me want to spoil her. Damn it, kid, stop being adorable.

Her birthday is in September. I am already looking for some probably ludicrously priced toy that she’ll love now and will end up in a garage sale in a couple years and sell for like a dollar.
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  EvenBaggierTrousers4Trace
  6/22/16 10:01am
  May I recommend a drum set? It will drive her parents crazy - which is hilarious - and if she gets good, she’ll thank you in her Grammy speech.
  
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  TraceEvenBaggierTrousers4
  6/22/16 10:04am
  Oh, fuck yes, drum kit is absolutely going to be one of the birthday gifts, especially if she starts liking music, because the look my BIL would give me would be worth every penny (you’re not a good aunt if you don’t troll your niece/nephew’s family tbh). Right now she’s in the animals are the best phase so it’ll probably be something related to veterinarian work and animal toys.
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OMG!PONIES!Hamilton Nolan
6/22/16 9:58am
1) I live in Montgomery County, MD. My kids are going to public school. It’s all paid for with my $6,000 in property taxes.

2) My wife stays at home. The only child care costs are those associated with a Chik Fil-A run or a day spent at MoCo Mall.

3) Two words: tax deduction. Two more words: smart accountant.

4) The kids get hand-me-down electronics. They don’t need their own cellphone They get our old cellphones.
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  theresthisOMG!PONIES!
  6/22/16 10:09am
  The costs will vary by family. According to the article, lower income families will spend $176k versus $400k for higher income families. They also include housing in their cost which is kind of questionable. I know childless couples who live in houses that are bigger and more expensive than mine. Housing is a cost people have whether they have kids or not. It can only be considered a cost of having kids if you buy or rent a bigger place than you otherwise would have. My sister is a single mom with two teens and she’s raised them in a tiny two bedroom apartment. The study also includes transportation which is again a cost you have regardless of whether you have kids or not and will vary a lot. So this is just an average. It’s not what every family will spend.
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  sticktoOMG!PONIES!
  6/22/16 10:13am
  I’m sorry, are you really disputing the $13K figure? And you live in Montgomery County? You are either lying or can’t do math
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EvenBaggierTrousers4Hamilton Nolan
6/22/16 9:47am
Would it be possible to outsource this whole baby thing? You know, send our sperm/eggs overseas, let them birth and raise them and then ship them back when they’re a usable age. I mean, it would make movie-going a much better experience for a start...
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  BouldersInMyNoseEvenBaggierTrousers4
  6/22/16 9:49am
  We import the baby-shakers from Ireland and England
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  NooYawkEvenBaggierTrousers4
  6/22/16 10:02am
  It’s called Surrogate and boarding school.
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Harkin BanksHamilton Nolan
6/22/16 9:55am
HamNo, you fucking communist:

You know I love you, and I certainly hate children.

But I love truth and hate inaccuracies even more.

You mistakenly posted that:

with your child, of course, you end up negative $245,340.

And you then “double count” the gain vs. loss from investing vs. throwing your money away on virulent little ingrates.

That, my pinko friend, is just not correct.

Consider: you start with $0.

You work, and you earn money. Let’s say about $245,340.

Suppose you spend that $245,340 on the only thing more addictive and destructive to your finances and personal health than heroin: a snotty child who, within the next 16 years will almost certainly tell you you’re a fucking asshole.

You’re back to $0. You are not “negative $245,340.”

If you had invested that money, I accept your claim that it might increase to $360,000 because the only thing I hate more than children and inaccuracies is doing actual work to figure things out myself.

But you haven’t lost your original $245,340 plus $360,000.

You have lost (in real terms) only your original $245,340.

You also have the opportunity cost of the amount you could have earned—i.e. whatever $360,000 minus $245,340 is, but I’m too lazy to use a calculator right now.

And it doesn’t matter anyway because, assuming your investment math is right, the real opportunity cost of the squalling, urine soaked, little sociopath is $360,000.

Not $600,000.

But, there is actually one other thing I hate worse than doing things for myself, and that’s looking dumb, so now I’m editing this because I bestirred myself to wander over to an online calculator. I plugged your numbers in and it seems that your 4% scenario will get your more than $360,000 total. But it doesn’t seem it will get you $600,000.

It seems like the interest plus principal would add up to less than $500,000 over 18 years. Even if you dumped the whole amount in up front (as opposed to investing installments yearly, like you suggest).

I see that you didn’t list any end date to the investment, so maybe you weren’t thinking of 18 years as the end game. (That is wrong, btw, because research consistently shows that people are happiest when their children move out, not when they retire, so the real goal in life should be your children’s exit from your home, not your exit from your job.)

Anyway I will accept that children cost about $500,000. But not $600,000.

And that’s still $490,000 too much.
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  WonderZimmsHarkin Banks
  6/22/16 9:59am
  
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  ptown707Harkin Banks
  6/22/16 10:04am
  You expect these bloggers to actually know what they are talking about? Clickbaity title with nothing that requires thought, is their go to for this blog.
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YeezyzHamilton Nolan
6/22/16 10:17am
Yeah, that’s cash that could be going to more vintage records and trips to Burning Man. Never mind the whole perpetuating the species thing. But catch the real irony of these observations coming from a guy who does little else but complain about fiscal conservativism; poor, uneducated segments of American society flagrantly procreate, producing new waves of dummies, while educated, and (supposedly) more ethically attuned urban dwellers selfishly avoid child rearing. Our society is one enormous Ponzi scheme hinged upon the efforts of the next generation. Anyone who willfully avoids contributing because you’re 40 and can’t get your shit together enough to find a partner, save some money, and raise a kid is a freeloading fuck.
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  Caitie2187Yeezyz
  6/22/16 10:20am
  Our planet is overpopulated as it is, so it’s cool with me if people decide to remain child free. It would also be unfair to the person/child to force them to have a kid they don’t actually want.
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  ZukkaYeezyz
  6/22/16 10:33am
  Hmmmm okay, let’s break this down: “Yeah, that’s cash that could be going to more vintage records and trips to Burning Man.” Uhh, what? What does it matter how people spend their money that they earned?
  
  “Never mind the whole perpetuating the species thing.” Right, because we’re NOT dealing with an overpopulation crisis as it is.
  
  “But catch the real irony of these observations coming from a guy who does little else but complain about fiscal conservativism; poor, uneducated segments of American society flagrantly procreate, producing new waves of dummies, while educated, and (supposedly) more ethically attuned urban dwellers selfishly avoid child rearing” Why is not wanting to raise a child inherently selfish?
  
  “Anyone who willfully avoids contributing because you’re 40 and can’t get your shit together enough to find a partner, save some money, and raise a kid is a freeloading fuck.”
  
  Listen, man. If people don’t want to raise kids, for whatever reason (they aren’t financially capable, they don’t just wnat to), that’s their business. What if you’ve got, let’s say, 2 high powered individuals (maybe CEOs or something) with little-to-no free time, who decide “yeah we just wouldn’t be able to devote time to a kid if we had one” so they decide not to have kids. Who are you to make blanket judgments?
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Andrew MochulskyHamilton Nolan
6/22/16 10:23am
As stupid and snarky as this article is, it’s a good illustration of how important scale is when it comes to economic analysis. Every discrete act of raising a child may be a bad investment for the parents, but when expanded to the larger economy, raising kids is the only reasonable choice. Not only is ongoing baby-cranking-outing a bonanza with regards to labor supply and aggregate productivity, but it mitigates the huge pains we’d all feel with a sudden contraction in new worker supply.

Babies: the price of empire.*

*Note: empire not available in all areas.
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  Arc3512Andrew Mochulsky
  6/22/16 11:44am
  Haha, you are wrongly assuming that the current generation shitting out kids is actually raising them. I was playing Destiny the other night and found myself in a raid group of five 12-17 year olds. Over the course of the next hour, two of them cussed out their mothers (one of them multiple times), one of them couldn't stop saying that he was going to murder the developers of the game and then commit suicide himself, one of them was burping and farting into the mic on top of laughing maniacally, and the fifth would periodically blast music into the mic. Oh, and the one contemplating suicide did not hesitate to make fun of the kid who cussed out his mom because he was adopted. Apparently his parents were drug addicts. The future looks grim. These are not soon to be productive members of society, and they are not the minority. I thought my generation was bad, but I was stunned every second I was in that party chat. When I left I realized that the joke was on me, as I'd just wasted an hour to become depressed. All downhill from here.
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  Andrew MochulskyArc3512
  6/22/16 12:46pm
  This is a very dumb anecdote.
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Pink SkullHamilton Nolan
6/22/16 10:17am
Counterpoint: Have you ever seen older childfree couples? It’s fun as balls...for a while. But that shit turns into a weird desperation where every time you’re hanging out you get to hear about “How much fun we’re having. Plus our dog is like our baby.”

We held out for a decade, but fuck it. I’ll spend $600K to not have that look in my eyes.
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  Wiz from WisPink Skull
  6/22/16 10:22am
  My child-free uncle, who, at 70, is still travelling the world and curating photography expositions would disagree. but YMMV.
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  LilaHorizPink Skull
  6/22/16 10:25am
  Not going to lie, this figured into our decision to reproduce
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