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    fudgesicleuighyrRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:04pm

    I honestly don’t get the point of these arguments after mass shootings anymore. This guy was a homophobe, he was apparently inspired by ISIS and I am sure he was insane too.

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      j4x_fudgesicleuighyr
      6/13/16 4:06pm

      Because a lot of the people publicly mourning this tragedy are privately making jokes about the “dead faggots”

      This kind of reaction is it seeping through.

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      HypnoCatfudgesicleuighyr
      6/13/16 4:07pm

      And also: GUNS.

      I do want to honor the fact that it WAS targeting gay people and it WAS homophobic. But lots and lots of people are homophobic. Having easy access to automatic weapons was what made this so deadly.

      It f*cking amazes me that people don’t get this.

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    AliceInWunderlandRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:06pm

    Srsly. If a brown dude walked into a church full of white people and shot them up, it would seen as AN ATTACK ON CHRISTIANITY!!! But, shooting up a gay bar? Nah. Nothing to do with gayness. Whatsoever.

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      ThenSAAliceInWunderland
      6/13/16 4:11pm

      Plain red coffee cups were an assault on Christianity.

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      HaighaAliceInWunderland
      6/13/16 4:21pm

      Oh, we’re even more shameless than that as a culture. The right-wing narrative after the Emanuel Church shooting in Charleston is that it was an attack on “Christians”. Never mind that the (raised Lutheran) white killer, Dylann Roof, was a Confederate-and-Rhodesian-flag wearing white supremacist who shot them because they were African-American. White America is pretty quick to demand that other groups take ownership over shitty things folks from their communities do, but any ownership over shitty white people? Nope! Gotta find a way to paint White America as a co-victim, and/or blame the actual victims for some portion of their misfortune. And hell, it happens with gender as well, as you see rape victims get blamed.

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    IAMBlastedBiggsLostBurnerRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:05pm

    Anybody who could disregard the facts surrounding this atrocity and claim it was anything but a homophobic hate crime is either (a) delusional, (b) paid handsomely to take an oppositional stance just for the fuck of it, or (c) is criminally unwilling to see the world as it really is, in favor of making sure that no groups other than their own are given any consideration whatsoever.

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      BernieLosesCaliforniaIAMBlastedBiggsLostBurner
      6/13/16 4:13pm

      anyone who disregards that this was caused by a muslim is either (a) delusional, (b) paid handsomely to take an oppositional stance just for the fuck of it, or (c) is criminally unwilling to see the world as it really is.

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      IAMBlastedBiggsLostBurnerBernieLosesCalifornia
      6/13/16 4:15pm

      Not the point of the article. At all. Good try, though.

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    Masshole JamesRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:08pm

    We need to come up with a better word than “homophobic” for someone who wants to kill us. You don’t want us to get married then you’re homophobic but this murderous psychosis? There has to be a better word for it.

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      Seneca the Younger(er)Masshole James
      6/13/16 4:11pm

      May I suggest homocidal?

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      Jordan CatalanoMasshole James
      6/13/16 4:11pm

      My cousin Tommy is homophobic; he uses the F word a lot.

      My friend Mahomod is homophobic; he wants to nuke The Castro District.

      Yeah I think you’re right.

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    Emperor SheevRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:08pm

    COUNTERPOINT: DON’T do that, because you’re giving up and making them think you’re a sulky child. Especially when you’re a journalist arguing this on live television. Make your point and stand by it, do NOT run away.

    Also Owen Jones is a qt.

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      BIMming ItEmperor Sheev
      6/13/16 4:17pm

      These “discussions” are specifically organized to contradict the guest and keep them on the defensive. Having this man on, days after the event, and telling him that he doesn’t have a right to claim this as a hate-crime or specifically targeting gays is unconscionable. I think walking away is the right thing to do in that situation, as nothing productive is going to come from it.

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      caekislove-caekingitupBIMming It
      6/13/16 4:21pm

      Good job bringing the Koran-quoting troll out of the greys. You sure showed him.

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    PeabodyHereRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:53pm

    We can do nothing about hate, it is a feeling.
    We can do nothing about terror, it is a strategy.
    We can do something about guns.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for property rights to trump human rights.

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      BlackMarketChimpPeabodyHere
      6/13/16 6:13pm

      So we should just give up on teaching tolerance and fighting terrorism and just take away gunz?

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      PeabodyHereBlackMarketChimp
      6/13/16 6:30pm

      Teach tolerance by example.
      Don’t provoke reprisals that may resort to the terror strategy.
      Guns are property that cannot be allowed to trump human rights.

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    det-devil-ailsRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:13pm

    We need a better word than “homophobic” for something like this.

    This asshole wasn’t just insecure about his heterosexuality or someone who self-consciously tries not to hum along to Cher music. He murdered 50 innocent people because they were in a gay bar.

    That’s a metric fuckton more than “phobia.”

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      caekislove-caekingitupdet-devil-ails
      6/13/16 4:20pm

      I really think it’s way past time to retire the “They hate gay people because they’re gay themselves!” talking point.

      There are hateful murderous fucks running around out there and gently teasing that “they may be one of us” really downplays how serious shit is getting.

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      Pog Whistlecaekislove-caekingitup
      6/13/16 5:18pm

      I've been saying this for year, it's really a form of soft homophobia itself.

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    Cylontater: Genital WhispererRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:10pm

    I just had to explain to (ANOTHER) coworker how this is 100% a hate crime since the shooter specifically targeted LGBT people.

    Don’t give me your “all lives matter” bullshit. This was a targeted attack against a group of minorities= HATE CRIME.

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      asmallcatCylontater: Genital Whisperer
      6/13/16 4:57pm

      But how will everyone know how rough white guys like me have it in america unless we co-opt every single tragedy to bitch about how the attention has shifted away from us for two seconds?

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      TampaBeeAtch (Unnaturally focused on Towel Charms)Cylontater: Genital Whisperer
      6/13/16 5:30pm

      I wish you strength. I was very glad no one at my work said anything stupid to me, but maybe everyone realized we were all too busy to involve HR and the police.

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    Flying Squid (I hate me more than you do.)Rich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:10pm

    “We’re trying to have a civilized conversation,” says Hartley-Brewer as he walks off.

    Isn’t leaving a conversation before you blow your top doing the civilized thing?

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      kemperboydFlying Squid (I hate me more than you do.)
      6/13/16 5:50pm

      The civilised conversation of talking over someone from the LGBT community as they try to explain to you that this is homophobia.

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      AttilathehungryhungryHippolordFlying Squid (I hate me more than you do.)
      6/14/16 12:37am

      I would have lunged for his throat pretty early in, so yup.

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    Arctic_AttorneyRich Juzwiak
    6/13/16 4:14pm

    The guy who stormed off was correct that this was an attack on homosexuals because they were homosexuals. But just walking away and refusing to engage with ideas that you disagree with is not the action of an adult. It’s the action of a whiny child who’s pissed off that others aren’t bowled over by the brilliance and correctness of his or her argument. It's about the least mature and least effective response he could have mustered.

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      hotenoughforyouArctic_Attorney
      6/13/16 4:24pm

      It’s not walking away from people he disagrees with. It’s walking away from people who refuse to believe that there are people out there who hate people like him, simply for being who they are.

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      IanArctic_Attorney
      6/13/16 4:26pm

      Not necessarily. If you are confident in the beliefs that you hold true, and you’ve clearly hit a wall with the others, it’s completely fine to simply walk away. There’s no reason to waste anymore time.

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