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The Noble RenardJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:13pm
The issue of school choice is one of those frustrating and complicated areas where it’s entirely possible to see each side of the issue for parents who live in areas with lower-performing, more segregated schools. If the school is genuinely unsafe or poor-performing, I can absolutely understand why even progressive, well-meaning parents dedicated towards smashing segregation would still hesitate to send their children there. It’s such a hard decision and honestly I’m very glad that I’ll likely never have to make it (no kids, thanks).

That said, the value of a diverse school is immense. I was extremely lucky to grow up with a quite good public school that was also very diverse; the internet tells me the student body is currently 49% minority, which generally reflects what I remember from my time there. And because the school was good, there was also a lot of economic diversity as well, from a few very rich kids, to mostly solid middle to upper-middle class, and with also a fair amount of people from first-generation immigrant families or working class roots. And I honestly think having that as an experience made me a much better, more rounded person.
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  trishwah042The Noble Renard
  6/10/16 2:21pm
  This is so true. We are trying to keep our kids in an urban district, but with all the options, urban districts are very hard to navigate. Gentrification also is making it very expensive to stay (we are house hunting now). We love urban life, but there’s a part of me that wants to chuck it and move to an inner ring suburb because the tradeoffs and research and decisions are just so much fucking work.
  
  Back when the kids were babies, I used to say, don’t judge someone’s stay-home vs go-back-to work decision because those decisions are very complex and involve a different set of options and variables for each person. School choice feels like the same thing.
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  Adrastra predicts "Low Key" title for Taylor's new albumThe Noble Renard
  6/10/16 2:26pm
  Just out of curiosity, was your high school urban, suburban, or rural? Your experience sounds a lot like mine, but it was also a direct reflection of the fact that our district was wide and encompassing.
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LizTaylorsEarringsJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:04pm
We don’t have kids yet but this is something that has crossed my mind. I went to Catholic school, husband went to public school (both are publicly funded in Ontario). I loved my on-the-small-side (less than 700) high school and was fine with my uniform (pants and golf shirts. Very exciting). But public schools are better funded and have more programs. Plus, in theory, by the time we have kids we will both be in higher income brackets. Do we consider private schools? If media has taught me anything, it’s that private schools are full of gross rich kids and do I want my children to be influenced by these kids (I’m picturing everyone from Gilmore Girls’ Chilton)? But a good private school has amazing educational opportunities. On the (fourth?) hand, if we are in a “good” neighbourhood that has a good tax-base, the local schools could be excellent with IB and AP programs.

Or I could just stop worrying about this until it’s actually time to worry about it. Maybe then we’ll be wealthy enough that the kids can have tutors*.

*In this fantasy, we live in a fantastic Victorian in Riverdale or Roncy and I’m driven around in a Rolls and have a wing at the ROM named after us. LET ME DREAM
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  bourbonista2LizTaylorsEarrings
  6/10/16 2:09pm
  Starring for having a museum wing named after your in your dreams.
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  Jane, you ignorant slut.LizTaylorsEarrings
  6/10/16 2:10pm
  We’re in the Army and usually do the local public schools, but we did do a Catholic school for two years at one particular base because the local public schools had such a terrible, violent reputation, even at the elementary school level. I had to do a lot of soul searching about that, as my mom was a public school teacher and I was raised to strongly believe in public education. I ended up calling her and asking her what she thought. She replied, “You absolutely do what’s right for your kid.” And so we did Catholic school those two years. I have no regrets about it.
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UrbanAchieverJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:00pm
We sent our (white) kid to public school while most of our friends sent theirs to private for the very reason that we wanted our kid to see all kinds of people, not just privileged white kids. We don’t live in the US, but we live in a very economically (and to a lesser extent, racially) segregated region of a foreign country. Her public school’s academic side was good, not great, but it is truly diverse in every way imaginable. This choice (which by the time she was 13, we involved her in) definitely had an effect on where she went to college (she got into a very good university, but it was clear that she could have gone to one of the best if she’d gone to one of the nearby private schools and gotten her diploma there), but in retrospect, in was the right one. For us, where we live.

Edited to add: I went to a good public school myself - and when my public school was on the threshold of being integrated, parents in our white neighborhood lost their freaking minds. This was a long time ago, but I remember my mom’s reaction: What a bunch of racist morons. That training is part of what informed our decision-making.

I think at the root of this is a breakdown in the educational system overall, and a flight to tiered educational systems even among the economically advantaged.
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  AlpacaUrbanAchiever
  6/10/16 2:08pm
  “...we wanted our kid to see all kinds of people, not just privileged white kids.”
  
  My wife and I have the same view. The part of your comment I quoted above summarizes very well why I prefer the public school system.
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  emacdaddyUrbanAchiever
  6/10/16 2:09pm
  I think you did the right thing. I could’ve gone to the best public high school in my area, and chose (with parents, of course) to stay at the neighborhood school which was much lower-income. School was kind of a joke, but I got what I needed to go to college. I think that being a white, upper-middle-class person had much more impact than what happened at school. I simply maintained a high level of achievement that my birth status dictated...all this is to say that parents should be striving to send their kids to diverse schools.
  
  Anyway, everyone has to go to grad school now so it’s cool if kid goes to not-Harvard and works hard. :)
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TheBurnersMyDestinationJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:03pm
Or we could divorce the funding of schools from the property values of where they are located. It makes no sense that School A, enrollment 100 students, receives more money than School B, enrollment 100, just because they happen to be 15 miles (or less) away from each other. Ashleigh and Carolyyn and Aiden aren't more deserving of a quality public education just because their mommies and daddies make more money.

I would love to hear more from her husband, who attended the Army schools, since that is where my (entirely hypothetical) children would be the most likely to go, and which are fairly diverse and usually adequately funded.
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  SaroTheBurnersMyDestination
  6/10/16 2:10pm
  I’m super ignorant about school funding, is that how it works?? That’s insane.
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  MeggannaSaro
  6/10/16 2:48pm
  It depends on the state.
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Kris-the-Needlessly-DefiantJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:07pm
I’ve worked in both the private and the public sector as a primary school teacher and will be sending my child to a public school. Considering the cost I don’t always find that private schools have the best teachers. The private school I worked at did not pay that well, had longer hours and less resources for the teachers and children (no behaviour techs, no speech therapists, no school psychologist, etc.).
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  Ruby_de_la_BoobyKris-the-Needlessly-Defiant
  6/10/16 2:23pm
  Stop talking sense.
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  deerlady83Kris-the-Needlessly-Defiant
  6/10/16 2:30pm
  I went to private school and we had an issue keeping a math teacher one year. That is true that private teachers aren't as well paid.
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wellreadheadJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:38pm
I’m a New York City public school teacher (high school) in South Bronx. This is something I used struggle with when I first started. I don’t have kids (or a relationship) but I asked myself that question a lot - would I send my kids to school here? But the thing is -

I love my school. I love my students. I work with an amazing staff. I would never ever send my child to a charter or magnet school because school is not just about test scores. I saw a comment talking about how charter schools are better options - sure if you want your child to have a different teacher every three months because no one’s trained and no one stays for that long. All of my colleagues WENT TO SCHOOL TO BE TEACHERS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE TEACHERS. We all have or are getting our Master’s in education. We all care immensely. We don’t have everything that a wealthier school has - but we have enough. And we build. I really liked her sentiment that she would provide for what the school couldn’t. And while I recognize the privilege in that statement - it just about sums it up.

As a teacher in the system (which does desperately need reform), I have learned it ultimately doesn’t necessarily matter where the child goes to school - it depends on the child and the child’s family. It depends on whether students grew up speaking English. It depends on how many words the student knew by age 5. It depends on whether or not the student reads books. It depends on whether or not the child was read to. It depends on the parents - are you making your kid do their homework, study for their tests, and encouraging (and allowing) them to do after-school activities? Reading stats about a school has nothing to do with whether or not YOUR child will succeed. I want my kids to have the best too, but I also want them to see what the world looks like and also maybe to learn they don’t have to have EVERYTHING to succeed or be happy.

So yeah. I would send my child to my school or a similar public school if I had that choice. The only thing I would do and the only thing I recommend is just visit - feel out the vibe of the staff, ask them how long they’ve been teaching, ask kids how they like going to school there. My school’s not perfect by any means but the one thing outsiders always compliment us on and that we feel every day is that our school is a family and a community. We work hard together (and we are always highly rated on culture and environment). Look for that rating over the test scores (And ours are good. But that’s because of the culture). That’s what I want in a school and that’s when kids succeed.
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  merchantfanwellreadhead
  6/10/16 3:17pm
  I do think that the kind of kids a child is exposed to/able to befriend do make a difference to. Like, if there are a lot of overachievers, they might become an overachiever. If there are a lot of snobs, they might become a snob. If there are a lot of kids who have given up and don’t care, they might not care. If there are a lot of kids in gangs, they might join a gang. Which is hard, because how do you skew trends like that towards “academically/success oriented” when so many factors are working against them?
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  notfromvenuswellreadhead
  6/10/16 3:58pm
  I work with an amazing staff. I would never ever send my child to a charter or magnet school because school is not just about test scores. I saw a comment talking about how charter schools are better options - sure if you want your child to have a different teacher every three months because no one’s trained and no one stays for that long. All of my colleagues WENT TO SCHOOL TO BE TEACHERS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE TEACHERS.
  
  I think most, if not all, of the issues around charter schools come down to what the school system allows and expects of them.
  
  In Maryland, charter schools are essentially public schools that are administered by a secular non-profit in order to provide education via an alternative methology (language immersion, Montessori, classical education, etc). The teachers are unionized county employees, the school has to be free to students, the school is held to the same performance standards, etc. None of this for-profit Khan Academy crap.
  
  And you know, it works pretty well. It means that, for example, kids in my county can go to a Montessori from Head Start to 8th grade for free. (If/when I have a kid, that’s where I’d want them to go, both because I like that education method and because it’s so much more diverse than our overwhelmingly white neighborhood public school.)
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John Olerud's HelmetJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:01pm
Look, call me selfish or a bad liberal but my kids are being sent to a place where they’ll be safe, where they’ll be well-educated and where they won’t have to deal with over-stressed, underpaid and disinterested teachers.

I mean, teaching them Finnish is going to be tricky at first but they’ll pick it up.
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  SipowitzJohn Olerud's Helmet
  6/10/16 2:07pm
  Great Finnish to that comment.
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Adele NazeemJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:09pm
As an African American woman, whose mom’s parents moved from inner city Philadelphia to the NJ suburbs and whose dad’s parents supplemented his education (to great sacrifice of their own) in Jim Crow south so that he could have the choice to attend Harvard one day, no my beliefs do not extend that far. I feel as though it would be disrespectful to the struggle that my grandparents underwent to put my kids right back where they fought so hard to get out of. My children would just be another brown face in a classroom of kids not getting the education they deserve. Both my husband and I are former teachers who worked in low-income communities (we specifically chose to work in high needs schools with students who could have been us) and it always pained me to know that I would never put my kid in the school that I put 70+ hours a week into along with the parents whose kids deserved every bit of the privilege that mine would have just by virtue of a decision that was made before I was even a thought. I am rambling now but this is a question I have always asked myself (would I want my kids in this school? no. so why is it okay for my precious students?) and it pains me to know the answer.
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  Rihanna is the one trueAdele Nazeem
  6/10/16 2:16pm
  well said. it’s not ok for your students to be there either, but its the reality of our education system. We need wholesale reform in the US, and I’m sure you know firsthand from teaching. One day...
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  FieryAntidoteAdele Nazeem
  6/10/16 2:25pm
  It sounds to me like you give a lot back at work. Your kids will extend your family values into the next generation, I’m sure.
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femi-what?!Jia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:11pm
Education seems too important to me to use to make a point. If I had children, I would send them to the best school I could. At the same time, I’d support policies that would lead the greater equality and truer integration in all of the schools, but I wouldn’t handicap my kid with a subpar education while no one else was playing by those rules. That seems foolish to me. The better thing to do would be to change the rules.
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  DJ Dozierfemi-what?!
  6/10/16 2:46pm
  So you’re fine with ghettoizing minority and low-income students in poor performing schools because it will be better for your children.
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  smrknd2femi-what?!
  6/10/16 3:20pm
  The degree to which a child will be ‘handicapped’ as you say by attending a less-than-the-best school is smaller than you might think (per research). You have to get pretty far down the “less than great” schools list before the educational outcomes, when controlling for demographic factors, start to get impacted.
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Ruby_de_la_BoobyJia Tolentino
6/10/16 2:15pm
In my town (Newport, RI) so many of my friends send their kids to private schools in a knee jerk fashion (as in, that’s what WASPs here do because...racism). We have very good public school system, and my daughter can obsess about Minecraft with kids of all colors and all socio-economic backgrounds. (Lord, someone tell me when how long it takes for Minecraft to wear off.)
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  LibrarySchoolDropoutRuby_de_la_Booby
  6/10/16 4:29pm
  My husband is from Portsmouth. I’ve learned that I can tell a lot about a person based on their opinions of Newport Public Schools. People act like sending a kid to Rogers is akin to signing them up to be a child soldier or something.
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  Ruby_de_la_BoobyLibrarySchoolDropout
  6/10/16 4:46pm
  I judge the National History Day projects every year at Rogers, and I have no concerns about our future when I meet those kids.
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