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    MajesticSeaFlapFlapHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 9:54am

    I’ve got shitty credit. I’ve been in the position where I needed to take my kids to the dr and get prescriptions before payday and, unfortunately, a payday loan from Amscot was my only option. The same thing happened when I had an abscess and had to go to the dentist to get a tooth pulled. If this regulation had gone through before maybe I wouldn’t have even had this option. Either I or my kids could have / would have ended up in the hospital and the debt I incurred there would have been worse than what I paid on the pay day loan.

    Its a shitty option and they profit off of it to be sure... but to take it away without giving people another way to get cash is going to hurt people - especially in the beginning.

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      Jason M.MajesticSeaFlapFlap
      6/02/16 10:05am

      Sounds like an argument for universal health care, not exploitative lending practices.

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      kamla deviMajesticSeaFlapFlap
      6/02/16 10:05am

      I am sorry you endured those hardships, that must have been extremely stressful. I’m a mom with terrible tooth problems also.

      In your individual situation, those payday loans were the only choice. However, it sounds like, in both examples you provided, what would have been best is if we lived in a system where healthcare was provided through taxes rather than out of pocket expenses. If that were the case, at least in your examples, there would not be a need for the payday loans to begin with.

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    Quasar FunkHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 9:50am

    Hamilton,

    Do you have any information on the larger payday loan companies and who owns them? I’m just curious who these people are, and if they are largely independently owned and operated or subsidiaries of other companies, whether in the financial industry or not.


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      IanQuasar Funk
      6/02/16 9:52am

      This is a good question. I don’t have anything to add, just wanted to say that.

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      Hamilton NolanQuasar Funk
      6/02/16 9:55am

      http://gawker.com/some-respected…

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    relative paucityHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 9:51am

    This is a type of issue on which I am undecided, and I would be very interested to hear others’ views on: should governments protect people from predatory contracts that those people willingly agreed to, i.e. give people choice, but then limit the known potential damages of that choice?

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      Zukkarelative paucity
      6/02/16 10:00am

      Yes.

      a) The government should help people avoid being in the situation where they NEED these predatory contracts in the first place. Because for a lot of people, it’s not really a “choice”. It’s not like someone is all “hey i want to buy a fancy new laptop, let me take out an ill advised loan because i have poor impulse constrol”. That’s something a dipshit like I would do, in which case I’m a dumb-dumb and deserve any problems I get.

      b) Any business model that depends on its clientele defaulting so it can trap them in a spiral (and HamNo is right- the entire business model is built around the assumption that this will happen more often then not) is not a business model that should exist

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      kamla devirelative paucity
      6/02/16 10:08am

      The government has regulations that (in theory) makes it illegal for companies to sell me toxic materials, dangerous materials, or faulty materials that could result in my death or injury. You could argue, that payday loans are inherently toxic and have a high likelihood of a particular kind of personal (and financial) injury to vulnerable consumers. It’s not really a “willing agreement” when you’re getting an advance to buy medicine for your child, or food to feed your family, or money to keep the heat on in your apartment.

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    ReburnsABurningReturnsHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 10:05am

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. What’s been released isn’t the meat of the rule, but what is there on the face of things would probably ruin most payday lenders.

    Granted, what is there on the face of things will be heavily influenced by how the official interpretations wind up being written.

    The documentation requirements here are going to be really important for determining whether this rule will have meaningful impact.

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      jezbannedReburnsABurningReturns
      6/02/16 10:51am

      What do you mean it’s not the meat of the rule? They literally released the entirety of the proposed rule. The rule and the explanation is over 1,000 pages long.

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      Netflix and ShillReburnsABurningReturns
      6/02/16 10:57am

      What’s been released isn’t the meat of the rule, but what is there on the face of things would probably ruin most payday lenders.

      If they make most of their money catching consumers in a debt trap, and this rule would require that they ensure consumers have the money to avoid a debt trap, this does seem like a fatal blow to these parasites.

      That is damn exciting!

      The documentation requirements here are going to be really important for determining whether this rule will have meaningful impact.

      Do you mean the documentation on which they’ll base the full-repayment test decision?

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    FloodHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 9:51am

    How about we stop placing payday loan spots in poor neighborhoods?

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      Hip Brooklyn StereotypeFlood
      6/02/16 9:52am

      Payday loans are only considered usury in a few states (I believe?) which is unreal. These things should be banned across the board (or at least thoroughly reformed), they’re ridiculously exploitative and predatory.

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      IanFlood
      6/02/16 9:53am

      I agree, but unfortunately that’s who their “customer base” is. People who can’t get bank accounts because of poor credit scores and histories, so they have to cash their checks at these places to have access to their money.

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    XrdsAlumHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 9:53am

    This industry of parasites doesn’t have to worry: DNC Chair (for now) Debbie Wasserman Schultz has their back.

    Reminder: she’s being challenged in the primary by Tim Canova in FL-23. Donate here if you prefer Dems who don’t support predatory lenders.

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      Bernie SandwichesXrdsAlum
      6/02/16 9:59am

      He’s been my go-to spite donation for a while now. $25 here and there.

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      Netflix and ShillXrdsAlum
      6/02/16 10:44am

      This industry of parasites doesn’t have to worry: DNC Chair (for now) Debbie Wasserman Schultz has their back.

      Reminder: she’s being challenged in the primary by Tim Canova in FL-23. Donate here if you prefer Dems who don’t support predatory lenders.

      She may not be such a powerful ally for long. I think the Dems are getting ready to throw her under the bus. She has been hated by many Dems for a long time, but I have to give Sanders some credit for being the catalyst for finally getting rid of her. That’s assuming it happens, but usually when people are talking openly about serving up your head on a plate, they’re just trying to figure out how, not if.

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    KyuzoHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 9:57am

    God help you if you ever cancel a check that is later cashed at an Amscot or similar payday loan joint. The law totally protects them and they can collect on the amount even though you had no direct relationship with them in the transaction.

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      Trumpmato TrollKyuzo
      6/02/16 10:41am

      Yes, the law typically takes a negative view of check kiting. Onerous, but true.

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      KyuzoTrumpmato Troll
      6/02/16 10:47am

      In my case, I made a partial payment up front to secure a contractor for a house project. When the contractor failed to show up or return any calls, I cancelled the check. About two weeks later he cashed the check at Amscot.

      So the dirtbag gets his money and I’m on the hook with Amscot, an entity I have no direct relationship with. It makes you wonder why canceling a check is even an option anymore.

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    PredatrixHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 10:31am

    I’ve often wondered this: If the loans are taken out by people who cannot pay them back, how do these “businesses” work? Do they make money on the small percentage who do make regular payments, or do they just leverage the value of their potential full repayments into borrowing power?

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      ReburnsABurningReturnsPredatrix
      6/02/16 10:44am

      People don’t make enough money to pay them off, but they do make enough money to cover fees and interest. So they just roll them into a new loan when they can’t pay them off.

      Even still, there’s a very high default rate, but at the effective APR on these loans, your winners way more than offset your losers.

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      SouthboundPachydermPredatrix
      6/02/16 10:59am

      Remember that there are no “regular payments” to miss. Basically it’s a $30 day loan. I give you $100 and at the end of the month, you give me $125. At the end of the month, you don’t have $125 so I tell you that you can just roll the loan over but you have to pay me the $25 in interest/fees from last month now and give me $125 at the end of the next month.

      Usually, you have to leave a check with the $125 amount with the payday lender that they’ll cash at the end of the month automatically if you don’t come back in. Or sometimes now they’ll have a way to wire in/out the money automatically from a savings account. If you don’t have any financial accounts, then you usually have to opt for a title loan or a pawn shop.

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    MiniatureamericanflagsforothersHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 9:56am

    “The payday loan industry will say that regulations like this will make it harder for needy people to get credit. True.”

    Restaurant-owners will say that regulations requiring adequate cold storage and cleaning equipment will make it harder for people to run restaurants. Also true!

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      funkdelishMiniatureamericanflagsforothers
      6/02/16 10:09am

      HA FUCKING HA! you win the internet today.

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      Armageddon T. ThunderbirdMiniatureamericanflagsforothers
      6/02/16 10:17am

      This is a perfect analogy.

      Bravo.

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    Ed SpockHamilton Nolan
    6/02/16 9:58am

    People will only have to take out payday loans for as long as it takes them to get their degree from The University of Phoenix, Everest Institute, or a similar for profit online school.

    Once they have that sheepskin in their hands it’s all gravy from that point on.

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      funkdelishEd Spock
      6/02/16 10:00am

      OUCH, but bravo. seen many go through that fucking cycle.

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