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    RegalAlienRachel Vorona Cote
    5/25/16 11:09pm

    While I cannot imagine what these families are going through and no one should ever be in their position (nor do I think a journalist should approach them to ask for their comments on this issue) - that sounds more like vengeance than closure.

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      VeryVickyRegalAlien
      5/25/16 11:15pm

      It may not make us feel warm and fuzzy to hear it but vengeance is closure to a lot of people.

      That’s why we have trials instead of leaving murderers in a room with relatives of the victims.

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      accordingtoRegalAlien
      5/25/16 11:20pm

      And?

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    chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfishRachel Vorona Cote
    5/25/16 11:17pm

    I can’t blame them, I’m sure I’d feel exactly the same way.

    Every once in awhile there’s a poster boy for the death penalty, someone we’d all like to see boiled in oil. Timothy McVeigh, Charles Manson, this guy.

    These cases are the tiniest miniscule iota of a single percentage point of death penalty cases. Much as we’d lose no sleep over any of these high-profile cases, the machinery mostly deals with other kinds of cases, ones far more open to bias, racism, simple error, prosecutorial misconduct.

    We’ve seen convict after convict released after 30 years in jail with an “oops!” from the justice system as they’re exonerated by some new technology or deeper investigation. Oopses don’t work if you’re killing the subject.

    The United States stands with who? China, Russia, North Korea, Iran? In keeping this penalty?

    It has not and probably cannot be applied fairly. Time for it to go into the dustbin.

    But I don’t blame the Charleston families one bit.

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      KittyReavenchritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish
      5/25/16 11:52pm

      The US basically still uses the death penalty with regularity alongside countries that the people of the party which mainly supports the death penalty commonly call backwards and barbaric. Which is most of the middle east. I find that ironic.

      And Japan, for some reason.

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      chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfishKittyReaven
      5/25/16 11:55pm

      Japan surprised me too, I gotta say.

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    Octopit didn't choose the burrito life, the burrito life chose octopit.Rachel Vorona Cote
    5/25/16 11:30pm

    I just feel like anything anyone says about this in the comments is going to be wrong. There is no good way to comment on this article.

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      Codename_SailorVOctopit didn't choose the burrito life, the burrito life chose octopit.
      5/26/16 12:09am

      Yup. I’m thoroughly anti-death penalty, but there’s absolutely no satisfaction to be found in discussing why the grieving families are wrong to support capital punishment or why it’s a good thing that our justice system is set up so that theoretically-disinterested parties get to decide what constitutes fair punishment instead of the victims themselves and/or their families.

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      shelwoodOctopit didn't choose the burrito life, the burrito life chose octopit.
      5/26/16 12:20am

      Agreed. I am extremely anti-death penalty, but I am not going to tell those families whose loved ones were executed with all certainty by Roof that they have no right to their feeling. Just like this is not the case to be buttonholing candidates on, since even those who are consistently opposed to the death penalty would just be slapping these families in the face by turning this into a campaign issue. These are the rules now. Should we change them going forward? That would be great, but maybe don’t make your point by shitting on the emotions of grieving families in a case where the killer is absolutely, definitely guilty.

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    RumberaRachel Vorona Cote
    5/26/16 12:24am

    Would somebody who reads the greys PLEASE have mercy on me and explain why the fuck I can’t even star somebody’s comment anymore? Is this site that gahtdamb exclusive now??

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      Rachel Vorona CoteRumbera
      5/26/16 1:15am

      Hi there! You’re free — use your powers for good.

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      chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfishRachel Vorona Cote
      5/26/16 1:17am

      You’re good folks. :)

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    LadyologyRachel Vorona Cote
    5/25/16 11:18pm

    Victims and the loved ones of victims naturally may crave vengeance. But the government of a first world nation seeks justice instead.

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      Sheket bevaka shut the fuck upLadyology
      5/25/16 11:44pm

      The United States, unfortunately, is just a very rich third world nation.

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      NonServiam's GhostLadyology
      5/26/16 12:35am

      There is no justice though, and no possibility of justice. What’s justice for these people, and for society? Putting this guy in jail for life? That is literally nothing compared to what he’s done. Even killing him is nothing, compared to what he’s done. I get it, we don’t much like vengeance, but let’s not pretend there’s any justice to be done. Justice became impossible the minute those poor people were killed.

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    JessaminaRachel Vorona Cote
    5/25/16 11:34pm

    But only a few days after the murders, some family members announced that they forgive Roof, and cited their religious faith as the source for their ability to do so. I hope that whatever happens to Roof, the family members aren’t further traumatized by it.

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      NonServiam's GhostJessamina
      5/26/16 12:41am

      does forgiveness mean the desire not to see the murderer harmed? It may seem like an obvious question, but I'm not sure it is.

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      Cestrumnocturn1Jessamina
      5/26/16 1:52am

      The operative word is “some”. Some of the family members forgave him.....but not all.

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    jazmaniandevilRachel Vorona Cote
    5/25/16 11:16pm

    What I can’t imagine is being the person who actually does flip the switch or press the button for the injection.

    I think even if I knew what a horrible person I was killing I would hesitate. I don’t think I could do it. Now if they did something to me personally that’s a different story but I still feel like that moment of hesitation has to be there right?

    I can just imagine waking up years later and still remembering that in between moment right before you pushed the button.

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      accordingtojazmaniandevil
      5/25/16 11:32pm

      I push the plunger on innocent shelter animals who have for nothing wrong, except maybe be sick or poorly trained. It sucks to have to kill a dog who I’ve cared for for a week or more, who is happy to be out of his cage and be touched by humans. But it’s a task at work that has to be done.

      A child murderer or mass/serial killer is not an innocent person. I do not believe the death penalty should be applied in the extreme majority of cases - even regular old premeditated murder. But when some piece of garbage fucks an infant to death or murders an entire family for shits and giggles, I would be happy to volunteer my skills to send them to hell, helheim, or simple nonexistence.

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      jazmaniandevilaccordingto
      5/25/16 11:37pm

      That’s gotta be a tough job but you are right it’s something that needs to be done.

      My point wasn’t really about whether the death sentence is an appropriate punishment. I think it just has to affect who you are on a very deep level to have to put a human to death more than once. I’m not saying that as a reason against it I guess I am mostly curious on what years of a job like that will do to someone. Even if you know they ‘deserve’ it it still has to take a toll.

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    SipowitzRachel Vorona Cote
    5/25/16 11:30pm

    I am ok with the death penalty in cases where the perpetrator maliciously, deliberately, and of sound mind takes the life or lives of others and can be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, not just reasonable doubt.

    This case is one of the (among very few) perfect examples of those circumstances.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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      reoneSipowitz
      5/26/16 12:24am

      Yeah, I feel the same way. I can understand why the family member quoted would feel this way and I don’t blame him for it.

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      QuanYinSipowitz
      5/26/16 12:26pm

      I feel the same way. There are times when the act is so egregious and the perpetrator so certain that the ethical concerns I have about the death penalty are overridden. They are few and far between, but they exist, and this case in particular is one that I am OK with. There is something perversely poetic about the idea of a white supremacist getting the death penalty for murdering black people.

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    Sheket bevaka shut the fuck upRachel Vorona Cote
    5/25/16 11:52pm

    I am completely opposed to the death penalty, no exceptions, for all the usual reasons, which I’m sure many others will discuss. And I am deeply disappointed in Obama and Lynch for this. But state prosecutors are also planning to seek the death penalty, and there is something sort of encouraging about the idea of a white man being executed for killing black people in South Carolina.

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      Al b sureSheket bevaka shut the fuck up
      5/26/16 8:38am

      Then maybe your not opposed to it as much as you think. Me personally they can bring back the firing squad for this fucker.

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      Sheket bevaka shut the fuck upAl b sure
      5/26/16 9:57am

      No, I’m extremely opposed to it. I’m just also aware that the general trend in America, and particularly in the South, is that white people can kill black people and not vice versa.

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    lissargh: still grey on the slotRachel Vorona Cote
    5/26/16 9:07am

    I’m personally against the death penalty in any case.

    In some cases, it’s because the system sometimes doesn’t work and people are exonerated after being executed/ it’s extremely expensive/ I’m generally not a fan of state-sanctioned vengeance.

    In cases like this one, though, or James Holmes or any spree killer/serial killer/ mass shooter it’s just that I don’t think being essentially put to sleep is punishment enough. Not near enough suffering for my tastes, put all of them on a deserted island a la Hunger Games where the prize for winning is living in a cell made entirely out of Lego bricks for the rest of their miserably uncomfortable lives.

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      aeioulissargh: still grey on the slot
      5/26/16 10:02am

      It definitely sounds like you don’t oppose the death penalty in any case since you just listed cases where you’d be fine with an inmate death match.

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      lissargh: still grey on the slotaeiou
      5/26/16 11:55am

      I don’t support the state killing people, that doesn’t mean I don’t still think that some people deserve bad shit to happen to them. I’m a human, and as such have nuanced views about a lot of things. Saying I’d be okay with a mass shooter/serial killer death match doesn’t mean I support the death penalty and it certainly doesn’t mean I’d support it in any case.

      ETA; I should clarify, also, that my stance on the death penalty is not an intrinsically moral one. While I do have my moral reasons, I also believe it's incredibly inefficient and economically draining.

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