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    ReturnOfTheMcKara Brown
    5/20/16 1:25pm

    “During her testimony, she became very emotional and cried. You could just see something different in her when she started talking about the rape and when it happened,” said Speaks.

    I really fucking HATE the idea that a “real victim” should behave a certain way. I’m incredibly stoic. I watched my father take his final breath. I watched him die. My mother and siblings immediately burst into tears. I did not. My first thoughts were, “Oh shit, now the whole family will descend upon the house. The house is a mess! We don’t have any food! Who can I call to go to my house and receive guests. I have to call so-and-so. I should make a list...” That week between his death and the funeral were such a flurry of activity, I didn’t have much time to cry. I didn’t really cry about it until they sealed up his casket in the crypt.

    I see this “real victim” reasoning on a lot of True Crime shows. The police will say, “We thought she was lying because when I she recounted the attack she didn’t cry.” Not everyone cries when they are reliving a horrifying experience. Fuck the expectation people are supposed to “act” a certain way to be seen as “real victims”.

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      JoanMillerTwoSuitsReturnOfTheMc
      5/20/16 1:31pm

      I am the stoic non-cryer of my family, so I know exactly what you mean. I may cry later, but not until I am alone. And I would never cry in front of a room full of people. I kind of wish I could, but that’s just not who I am. And, yes, people often get me wrong.

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      LostAnotherBurnerPasswordReturnOfTheMc
      5/20/16 1:35pm

      We recently had a tragedy in my family, and after a few days my mom and I got drunk and confessed to each other that we had no idea what the appropriate “freak out” level was. I don’t want to be the stereotype of a hysterical woman and lose my shit, and besides, there is A LOT TO DO after something like that so who’s got the time? On the other hand, everybody now thinks we’re “cold” because we didn’t publicly display the appropriate level of emotion.

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    benjaminalloverKara Brown
    5/20/16 1:25pm

    Additionally, you have to wonder if some of the initial doubt from the jurors about the credibility of the witness was at least subconsciously informed by some racial bias.

    Really? We have to wonder? I don’t. This jury got it right (just barely by the sounds of it*), and I have no reason to suspect any of them are consciously racist, but it simply isn’t possible for the race of the victims to have not been a factor at all. We all bring unexamined biases with us- even if, or maybe especially if- we’re quite convinced otherwise.

    *I’m not surprised it was the youngest victim’s ‘victim-like’ comportment that swung this man’s opinion, along with DNA of course. I shudder to think what would have happened without those elements of the case, because it doesn’t sound like the other 7 victims’ words counted as much as one man’s otherwise.

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      Kenhe Loginbenjaminallover
      5/20/16 1:28pm

      Subconscious racism is a much bigger, more prevalent and more insidious problem.

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      benjaminalloverKenhe Login
      5/20/16 1:38pm

      It is indeed more prevalent and insidious, and also far stickier, because it has to do with our continuous exposure to a racist society and the ideas we absorb unnoticed and uncritically from it, not about our intentions. I would really like to think I’m less racially biased than average, but 1) I’m certainly not unbiased, 2) I suspect everyone would like to think that about themselves, and 3) this belief or wish about myself actively prevents me from noticing my own biases.

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    Mary, Queen of ScoffsKara Brown
    5/20/16 1:29pm

    I absolutely think Holtzclaw targeted victims he thought would be less likely to be believed. He preyed on poor, minority women - many of whom had some kind of criminal record - because he knew they would be less likely to come forward and he thought he would get away with it.

    He DID get away with it for a long time. I am glad he was finally stopped.

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      benjaminalloverMary, Queen of Scoffs
      5/20/16 1:46pm

      I absolutely think Holtzclaw targeted victims he thought would be less likely to be believed.

      We have to just admit that the vast majority of serial sex offenders do this, and they do it quite effectively. In my case, I was mistaken for his target demographic, and to be honest I’m not sure I would have been able to come forward if I had been the age/class/predicament that he mistook me for. His system was working for him, he just fucked it up. Holtzclaw’s system worked for him for quite a while too, his final victim was just gutsy enough to defy the odds and come forward even though she was not likely to be believed.

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      $7CoffeeMary, Queen of Scoffs
      5/20/16 1:59pm

      This is the first thing I tell anyone who expresses doubts about a woman’s rape claim. Serial predators target the disenfranchised or the isolated. They seek out women who will have trouble being believed and some get sickeningly good at it. I think once people wrap their heads around this it becomes a lot easier to believe victims.

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    JujyMonkey: Clever tagline goes hereKara Brown
    5/20/16 1:31pm

    These are the same type of people who look at someone in a supermarket and thinks they don’t look “poor enough” to need food stamps and assumes that they’re just lazy.

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      WhiskeyprayerJujyMonkey: Clever tagline goes here
      5/20/16 1:41pm


      One day we are also going to have to have a discussion of class plays onto our bias as well.

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      JujyMonkey: Clever tagline goes hereWhiskeyprayer
      5/20/16 1:51pm

      yup, absolutely. incorrect assumptions regarding class/race are completely intertwined.

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    goddessoftransitoryKara Brown
    5/20/16 1:22pm

    Ugh, the SVU season finale two parter is using this as its basis and it’s so depressing. They cast Brad Garret as the rapist and he’s a CO, not a cop (the actually made a point of saying he tried twice but failed the exam) but his bullying, intimidation, and preference for WOC is horribly intact.

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      I'm Fart and I'm Smunnygoddessoftransitory
      5/20/16 1:37pm

      Brad Garret? Why would they cast such a goofy guy in such a horrible role?

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      goddessoftransitoryI'm Fart and I'm Smunny
      5/20/16 1:39pm

      Oh, it really worked. He’s HUGE and he used his size to intimidate. You got the feeling he’d happily crush you. He conveyed the frustration and smugness of a tiny king ruling his shit pile so well.

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    No-Mi SkyeKara Brown
    5/20/16 1:45pm

    “There was some jurors that — due to that fact [of] who these victims were –- had a hard time believing them,” Speaks said.

    I hate everything about this so much. Anyone can be raped. Anyone. Regardless of your outfit, your race, your gender, your occupation, your reputation or state of mind or your consciousness.

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      FeralFrigidSlutNo-Mi Skye
      5/20/16 1:56pm

      You know that. I know that. The majority of the commenters here know that.

      But the majority of the public, especially the male public, believes in the commodification of the female body. Which means, to them, sex workers cannot be raped and women will use their bodies to get out from under criminal acts etc. Therefore, only the “right kind” of victim is actually a victim.

      I was stunned when this verdict came back. I honestly expected he’d be found not guilty due to racial, class, and gender biases.

      Long may he rot.

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      No-Mi SkyeFeralFrigidSlut
      5/20/16 2:30pm

      I was hella shocked that they got it right for a change and I’m rarely shocked by things these days. Good news is shocking, bad new is just standard.

      I wish they’d just have common sense and start teaching kids in school from young about consent and respect for a person’s ... particularly women’s ... autonomy.

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    Andrew DaisukeKara Brown
    5/20/16 1:20pm

    Nice to see this piece of shit get what he deserves. It's sad that we are surprised when justice is actually done these days.

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      CrystalClearWatersKara Brown
      5/20/16 2:52pm

      Of course they didn’t. Most non-black/non-female people in this country don’t care about Black women by default. They just don’t. They don’t think of us, they don’t empathize with us, and they don’t care. That’s the default setting. They have to be made to care by Black women constantly proving our humanity on a case by case basis.

      I feel this every time a “friend” tells me I’m not like other Blacks (spoiler alert! This is false, there are literally hundreds of thousands of Black women who are very similar to me in many ways. We are not a monolith, but I am not an anomaly either) or compliments me on how strong and independent I am because I can do so much without the support others have (it doesn’t occur to them that succeeding without support is learned behavior that developes when you have no one who wants to support you).

      I’m not saying women of other races and men CAN’T care about Black women. I genuinely believe that most people are good and when you point out something shitty they can begin to change their perspective. I’m saying that empathy for Black women isn’t the default. It’s rarely given without some effort on the woman’s part that makes her seem worthy of empathy to the person who didn’t feel it before. It’s sad and shameful (for those who can’t empathize). I hope the world is changing though. We’ll see.

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        MsKittyFantasticoCrystalClearWaters
        5/20/16 3:25pm

        I fucking hate that you’re not “black” black shit!!

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        CrystalClearWatersMsKittyFantastico
        5/20/16 3:40pm

        It's a good way to suss out real friends from fake friends though.

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      FeedTheDevilSoupKara Brown
      5/20/16 1:15pm

      I have nothing to add here other than to thank you for posting this dude’s stupid cry-face one more time. It brings me such joy.

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        scowly brow spinsterFeedTheDevilSoup
        5/20/16 5:40pm

        I just wanna slap those sad baby tears right off his crumpled snivel face.

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      Masshole JamesKara Brown
      5/20/16 1:27pm

      It was so glorious when Holtzclaw mouthed “how could you do this?” to the jury after they convicted him. He just couldn’t believe that they’d believe these women over him! I guess he found out that day that he’s not quite white enough.

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        BurnThisAccount45Masshole James
        5/20/16 1:55pm

        God, he truly is the worst embodiment of an entitled, woman hating cop. Every time you think he can’t get worse, he comes up with new and surprising ways to show what a sociopathic ass he is.

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        VeryVickyMasshole James
        5/20/16 2:14pm

        More like he found out being white doesn’t equal being a racist. He attacked black women because he thought that even if the truth came out whites would cover for him. Wrong.

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