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nerdygirlisstilltiredStassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:52pm
Maybe my experience is different, but whenever I explain that I was a victim of child abuse (awful, awful, basically was held prisoner by my mother, abused), I am not told I’m a survivor. Or a victim. In fact, I am pressured to forgive or the listener explains away the abuse because they refuse to believe a mother would hurt her child. I don’t think of myself as a “victim” (hate that word, although I use it when need be), but rather a survivor because it does take a kind of heroism to get through the day and to not break down. And I echo others, what do we say instead?
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  Inquartatanerdygirlisstilltired
  5/03/16 4:31pm
  Fuck the whole narrative of being required to forgive the abuser or having the abuse explained away enough that the explainer feels better about it having taken place.
  
  Sure, some people who were abused might find whatever solace they need in doing either/both of those things, andcit’s great for them if they do.
  
  Personally, I haven’t forgiven, I haven’t forgotten, I can acknowledge that some parents really do suck that much, and no I don’t need to reach out/understand/keep any kind of connection with either abusive parent so fuck off on telling me I need to just because you can’t accept it in your world view, and I’m all right with that.
  
  And by ‘you,’ I don’t mean you, nerdygirl, just to be clear.
  
  signed,
  
  Another person who was abused by a parent(s) as a child.
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  Korranerdygirlisstilltired
  5/03/16 5:24pm
  I was assaulted in adulthood and while I’m sure it’s not the same I feel you on the “why the fuck should I be required to forgive?” part.
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Major Lazer Power BlazerStassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:46pm
a cool thing about doing EMDR/ truama therapy is that i feel like i’m no longer a victim or a survivor. it’s like a thing that happened that i no longer have any connection to
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  RubyCan'tFailMajor Lazer Power Blazer
  5/03/16 3:52pm
  Did you like EMDR? I’ve thought about it since reading about it in the Body Keeps the Score but haven’t actually talked to anyone who’s done it.
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  vegbrarianMajor Lazer Power Blazer
  5/03/16 4:05pm
  I feel this way as well about the domestic abuse I experienced. I don’t consider myself a “victim”, or a “survivor”. It’s just something that happened to the past version of vegbrarian. My whole marriage in general I’m quite disconnected from at this point, it’s almost like it’s a story I heard rather than something that happened to me. And that allows me to live the life I want to now without having aftershocks of the experience impacting my day-to-day.
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ValerieHouseStassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:23pm
There are things you survive. There are things you get over or move past.

And there are things that you carry with you. You can learn to carry them with grace, but you never really get past them.

And that’s OK.

We all need to be allowed to cope with our own personal tragedies without society’s expectation that we will overcome or will become a warrior.
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  EileenOnSundayNightsAfterAllInTheFamilyOnCBSValerieHouse
  5/03/16 3:49pm
  I think society requires that narrative because we live in a climate in which people CANNOT deal with these problems on a large scale.
  
  We need that narrative of a person having strength because it means we don’t have to DO anything for them. “Hey, I’m FINE! I’m making it WORK! Don’t patronize me by wanting to help!”
  
  That’s what we get to hear. And we LIKE it as a society. It means things aren’t horrible and unchanging and beyond our ability to move past as human beings.
  
  The word is not just or even mainly about the person who had the incident happen to them. It’s about how the rest of us get to process the reality of that situation once we hear about it.
  
  It’s why, frankly, conservatives want these things to go back in the closet, so to speak. Because, in their ham-fisted blind way, they’re manifesting a version of the same thing the rest of us are doing when we try to find words that put the person who was raped/has cancer/etc. into a box that allows us to not have to think about it all.
  
  A “victim” is the problem of the police and authorities. A “survivor” doesn’t need us, s/he’s getting through and making lemonade out of lemons. You see, what I mean?
  
  Whatever word we use or find, is going to be more of the same.
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  stressedhampsterinhamperValerieHouse
  5/03/16 3:52pm
  I found this article truly and throughly thought provoking. I hated being a “victim” because my identity was taken and defined by one awful moment. Once again, he had control to define and shape me...that was my right. Survivor felt better (?) but it still seems like that should be assigned to something triumphant or out of ordinary. Being raped is a reality for too many and what options are there?
  
  You live, you breath, you continue despite being changed just like all those before you and after. We live, not that special or heroic. The moniker “survivor” feels like it’s trying to hide the everyday-ness of rape. It happens too much and valorizing those that continue seems like a denial of a HUGE social evil we’d rather ignore. Does my rape define me? To an extent. Do the things I did, created, fought for like my children, my academic achievements, my political awareness, my bad ass matzo ball soup define me? Absolutely.
  
  TL; DR: On the fence. Semantics have power and expecting every person raped to become Olivia Benson is a heavy weight.
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JujyMonkey: Clever tagline goes hereStassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:55pm
Part of the issue is the fact that public dialog is, in large part, parsed in 140 characters on Twitter. It boils very complex and nuanced issues into archetypes. I’m not saying that Twitter is a bad thing in the least; just the efficiency of the medium may have an influence on larger scale platforms.
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  deerlady83JujyMonkey: Clever tagline goes here
  5/03/16 4:03pm
  I’ve noticed nuance and complexity has really gone away. Now, it feels like things have to be good or bad. We can’t sit and think carefully about issues anymore. If things aren’t perfectly good, they are bad.
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  Slay.douché - (dreams to be a puppy)deerlady83
  5/03/16 4:14pm
  ^THIS
  Everyone’s in too much of a “headspace induced” kneejerk mode to be thoughtful.
  
  For once, I’d like to read/hear somebody utter:
  “You know what, that’s a complex issue, I’ll have to get back to you.”
  (Instead of taking: the cheap shot, the one up, the simpleton’s literal contrarian, the power grab etc.)
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Dr. OpossumStassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:21pm
That essay certainly raises some valid points but what would be an alternative word? I doubt people want to use “victim” again. Any ideas?
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  PossuminawellDr. Opossum
  5/03/16 3:33pm
  Where I live people are using “thriver.” It’s stupid and those people are the worst.
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  designbotDr. Opossum
  5/03/16 3:33pm
  maybe they can just be people again? With either ‘victim’ or ‘survivor’ the word is about the person and not the event, which on some level assumes that event has changed the person, has moved them into some new sort of category. Maybe we can avoid forcing them into a new category and instead speak of the events as just what they are, just one piece of a larger picture that is their lives.
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HaHaYouFoolStassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:22pm
I think this assessment is absolutely correct - but I don’t know what to do about it.

What should we say instead?
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  NotATsarinaHaHaYouFool
  5/03/16 3:58pm
  Could we say something like “someone who experienced sexual assault”? It’s a little more unwieldy, but at least it allows for the person to be more than just the experience.
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  VodkaRocks&aPieceofToastHaHaYouFool
  5/03/16 4:08pm
  I think the best thing to do about it is be aware of how heavy handed the word “survivor” can be. Let the person who you are talking to or referring to guide the conversation. If you really want to know how they feel about it, just ask. :)
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deerlady83Stassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:58pm
I think it’s important to understand that people are going to respond to trauma in different ways. I don’t think it’s going to be on a continuum of victim to survivor. Those terms feel limiting in how to express how people respond to things. I’m not sure how to best explain this idea I’m grappling with so bear with me. For some people, it will take up more headspace than others. It will affect them in a more daily way where they are struggling with it. Some might have flashes every once in awhile. They might have some areas they are still sensitive. For others, it might be something bad that happened to them long ago. That might be why dichotomies feel so limiting. It’s not either this or that.
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  Rebel Girldeerlady83
  5/03/16 7:39pm
  I’m more in the “Haven’t killed people who deserve it” camp.
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AgreeToAgreeStassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:58pm
“Everything can be projected upon them, it seems — everything but the powers and vulnerabilities of ordinary personhood.”

When I read the headline I was prepared to be angry about this piece. I also just immediately assumed “thoughtful” was sarcastic just because this world is awful. This was thoughtful though and interesting. This is what happens with language and the way we “brand” things. Everything’s a brand nowadays! When a word is applied in a new way it can exciting, but it eventually becomes tired and too general. We can’t have just one word to describe victims/survivors and that maybe be frustrating, but the important thing to remember is we are all different. We are imperfect people that can be both warriors and broken at the same time. I don’t know if there is a right answer or fix.
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Kamai - Looming and InevitableStassa Edwards
5/03/16 3:19pm
So what's the solution? A constantly evolving language that shifts when the overuse of one word diminishes its meaning? Isn't that sort of how language already works?
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  Jane, you ignorant slut.Kamai - Looming and Inevitable
  5/03/16 3:33pm
  Pretty much. Language changes quickly because people adapt it to whatever they want it to be. Thirty years ago, “Mentally Retarded” was considered a new, sensitive, modern term for people with intellectual disabilities. Now it’s considered a slur and is bleeped out when Bring it On airs on basic cable during the day. Whatever word the community of sexual assault... er, not victims, not survivors... decides on next, it will inevitably fall to the same fate as survivor did.
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Mary, Queen of ScoffsStassa Edwards
5/06/16 10:51pm
I think the word “survivor” also becomes a way for OTHER people to deal with their discomfort. It is, in a way, similar to when people say, “God doesn’t give you more than you can handle” - like, “this bad thing happened to you, but you are a strong survivor . . . so I don’t have to feel bad this happened to you because you are SO STRONG.”

For a different set of circumstances beyond my control, people always say things to me like, “I don’t know how you do it. I could never do everything you do.” The truth is - shit happens and you have no choice but to deal with because there it is. People say it to make themselves feel better -and they tell themselves it didn’t happen to them because they couldn’t handle it and they gave me a compliment, too, so aren’t they just wonderful people.
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