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    TheVageniusEllie Shechet
    4/28/16 11:50am

    Even if you get a prosecution in some states, here’s another reason you won’t get justice: oral sex is not considered “forced” if a victim is unconscious.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/oklaho...

    *sigh*

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      AntisocialJusticeWarrior is not Anti-SJWTheVagenius
      4/28/16 11:52am

      I’ve been wondering whether Jez was going to cover this or not!

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      qwintsTheVagenius
      4/28/16 11:59am

      It was the right ruling given the law, but Oklahoma needs to (and probably quickly will) fix that law and everyone should see if their state has the same problem.

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    TheVageniusEllie Shechet
    4/28/16 12:11pm

    You know, sometimes when I talk to my therapist I tell her about the most recent news I read. I’m occasionally depressed. And when we talk about medication, I wonder: how are we supposed to live in a society that demonstrates how little we matter, every fucking day, and not be depressed? How are women supposed to see violence against us happen every fucking day and be brushed off, shrugged over, laughed about, excused, or worse, blamed, and not be depressed? How are we supposed to watch our right to access abortion and birth control and thus our right to economic self-determination be eroded, the route out of poverty closed off, our country continue to deny us equal pay, equal representation, reasonable parental leave, health care, support, day after day, and not be depressed?

    It's 9am and I'm already sad about the world.

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      LuaTheVagenius
      4/28/16 12:52pm

      Sometimes I try to talk to my husband about stuff like this because it helps me process some things that happened to me when I was younger. As well meaning as he is I can tell he just doesn’t get why my assaults are still affecting me as strongly as they are. It’s gotten worse since I had a daughter because now I imagine these things happening to her someday.

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      TheVageniusLua
      4/28/16 1:13pm

      Yeah, my partner doesn’t really understand either. They really can’t unless they purposefully try to read about these things and empathize with what women go through. They just do not share our experience, and it is hard to believe. I remember wanting to not believe, because clearing that hurdle meant I had to acknowledge that the world is not just and people suffer for no reason, and people actively prevent our society from changing to help.

      A good post to read for people struggling to understand is here: https://bellejar.ca/2015/12/03/bei...

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    neuroradical4Ellie Shechet
    4/28/16 11:43am

    Just to make it a bit clearer for anyone who has never been to Kenyon, The Cove is or was a bar that is kind of on campus. I believe they leased the space from the college and was sort of official in that sense. The town surrounding Kenyon is incredibly small with just a few thousand residents, and it is basically an extension of the campus.

    It’s a bit different than a lot of people’s college experience. Very isolated

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      aranelneuroradical4
      4/28/16 12:38pm

      When I was there it was pretty routine for students to leave their dorm rooms unlocked (or leave the doors standing open!), even though the dorms themselves did not have locks on the outside doors. The feeling of being in a small, close-knit community makes it feel “safe”, especially if you’ve grown up in a small-town environment where locking doors is what other people do in the scary big city.

      In that context, the fact that a woman who grew up in Gambier now wants to go to Ohio State University instead (a giant school in a scary big city) speaks volumes.

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      TheLilacUnicornaranel
      4/28/16 2:28pm

      Now all the dorm buildings have k-card scan locks. I’d say maybe 25% of students lock their doors? I never did.

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    setzsgzreryEllie Shechet
    4/28/16 12:15pm

    Ok, confused Brit here. Why is this anything to do with the college? Why isn’t it automatically a police matter?

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      helgaperezsetzsgzrery
      4/28/16 12:34pm

      Apparently the local police force didn’t want to investigate it because they said rape cases so frequently turn into a “he said, she said” situation. That attitude is fairly widespread in the US. For instance, Idaho’s Bingham County Sheriff Craig Rowland objected to an Idaho bill requiring rape kits to be tested. He thinks most reports of rapes are actually consensual sex, so no need to gather evidence.

      Universities have codes of conduct, which in theory can be used to protect a victim of rape if the local police department is not swift enough to do so. Even if the rapist is successfully prosecuted, that process can still take years, during which time the university might take such steps as making sure the accused is assigned dorm space far away from the victim, and that the accused is not in the same classes as the victim. If they feel there is enough evidence, they may even expel the accused to protect the victim, although this rarely happens.

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      YoSupsetzsgzrery
      4/28/16 12:45pm

      Rape is a police matter. The school also has separate disciplinary procedures (as it must to avoid to avoid getting sued for sex discrimination).

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    bagoflettersEllie Shechet
    4/28/16 11:40am

    It is always really interesting (horrifying) to me that the response to “Hey you are failing your students in how you are conducting this and here is clear cut evidence you are” is met with “we maintain that we are doing everything possible to conduct this investigation and we stand against sexual assault/violence/insert PR response here"

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      TyrannosaurusBataarbagofletters
      4/28/16 11:57am

      Right. He says it’s unacceptable except...here you are, accepting it? Or at least, failing to make it clear through your actions that it’s unacceptable. So is that like enough now? We just say it’s unacceptable and then, accept it when it happens and when there’s ample evidence?

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      TheLilacUnicornTyrannosaurusBataar
      4/28/16 12:11pm

      This whole thing is so upsetting - I went to Kenyon, and Decatur always came across as *extremely* aware of the issues and very supportive of the Sexual Misconduct Advisors, Take Back the Night, Crozier (the feminist house), etc. He seems to truly care about this issue and believes that it’s a real problem, but you’re completely right that this letter is inadequate.

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    Rando CalrissianEllie Shechet
    4/28/16 11:42am

    This is a model of how to be a good ally.

    I feel for the survivor, and I’m glad she has support from her family.

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      whatisuptampaEllie Shechet
      4/28/16 3:01pm

      Cases like this are why law enforcement, not universities with inadequate and untrained investigators should pursue these cases. Universities are between a rock and a hard place right now. They get blamed and sued for anything they do. Empower local law enforcement, have a campus branch of offices with specialized training in sexual assault, hire female detectives, but get the professionals involved.

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        KaraThrace,LikeEverybody,LovesHypnoToadwhatisuptampa
        4/28/16 4:55pm

        she went to the police, and they discouraged her from pressing charges.

        sure, police “should” handle it—but too often they are not willing to do their jobs when it comes to sexual assault.

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        whatisuptampaKaraThrace,LikeEverybody,LovesHypnoToad
        4/29/16 2:51pm

        That is why there needs to be specialized police training for the local police, but they should be police not campus employees. Every college should be assigned a local police team for minor crimes, as well as sexual assault. These police officers should have specialized training in sexual assault, both investigation and assisting the victims.

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      AdmiralAsteroidEllie Shechet
      4/28/16 11:40am

      My favorite line was this: “Over the past 24 hours, the Kenyon community has been made sensitive to issues regarding sexual misconduct.”

      Yes, I’m sure that they only just now noticed that there are issues regarding sexual misconduct. I’m sure it was an absolute shock and surprise to the whole student body.

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        The Noble RenardAdmiralAsteroid
        4/28/16 11:55am

        That’s the one that stuck out to me too. Like, Kenyon’s administrators have spent the last four years sitting on a beach drinking margaritas, only to stumble groggily into the office this morning and go “WHAT? Sexual assaults are happening at colleges? Who knew? Let’s do something about this!”

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        AdmiralAsteroidThe Noble Renard
        4/28/16 12:06pm

        Not only that, but I feel like the choice to say “made sensitive to” over “made aware of” was very deliberate. As in, “oh those silly undergrads, they’re so sensitive.” Because it’s ridiculous, you know, for people to get emotional about sexual assault.

        Plus referring to it as “sexual misconduct” rather than “assault” implies it was mistaken consent or something, not an outright violation of a person’s body.

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      team buttersidedownEllie Shechet
      4/28/16 12:14pm

      This is how social change will come about in our current society. The internet is making it possible for events like this to be made public, and making it so colleges/companies/governments are unable to cover up corruption.

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        TheVageniusteam buttersidedown
        4/28/16 12:42pm

        One can only hope. But given how ridiculous the views on women, rape, and consent are in the general public, I’m having a hard time holding out hope.

        Do you know that 1 out of 3 college men said in a study they would rape someone if they knew no one else would ever know? That study was fairly recent and I’m not sure if I want to know what attitudes were like decades ago, when the people currently running this place were in college.

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        team buttersidedownTheVagenius
        4/28/16 12:51pm

        We just have to keep reporting them until there’s enough pressure to fix it. Colleges won’t change anything until their Alumni complain an until applications drop off.

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      Paranoid Android (sometimes says dumb things)Ellie Shechet
      4/28/16 12:08pm

      And cue the trolls that will insist that it’s more important to protect the man/attackers’ reputation because their lives might be ruined and that false accusations about rape rampant.

      To those trolls- burn in hell.

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        coreqpParanoid Android (sometimes says dumb things)
        4/28/16 8:23pm

        Why make these comments they serve no purpose and bring no value to the discussion.

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        Paranoid Android (sometimes says dumb things)coreqp
        4/28/16 8:32pm

        Because this is a public comment section and I can say whatever I damn well please. If you don’t like what I’ve said or don’t get what I’m trying to convey, that’s your failure-not mine.

        What brings no value or purpose to the discussion is you willful ignorance. Enjoy the thrill of getting ungreyed.

        Have a good evening.

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