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    Jane, you ignorant slut.Anna Merlan
    4/04/16 10:49am

    One of the most horrifying parts of belonging to “Mommy” groups on Facebook is seeing the sheer number of people who ask for referrals to naturopaths, chiropractors, or “vax-friendly” doctors. This stuff is shockingly common.

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      kamla deviJane, you ignorant slut.
      4/04/16 10:52am

      There were 2 reasons I chose our pediatrician, and it was based on negative Yelp reviews.

      1. The pediatrician would not see any parents who had guns in the home.

      2. The pediatrician refused to serve parents who refused to vaccinate.

      Sounded like a good practice to me.

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      JujyMonkey: Clever tagline goes herekamla devi
      4/04/16 10:58am

      what did the negative reviews say? I agree with the doctor, btw.

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    weebleswobbleAnna Merlan
    4/04/16 10:50am

    There’s a really interesting AMA going on right now with an OB-GYN about natural parenting and pseudoscience that is worth checking out.

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      smrknd2weebleswobble
      4/04/16 11:01am

      Fair warning, though, Amy Tuteur (aka the Skeptical OB) frequently puts me on the A Pox on Both Your Houses side (#teamnoone) because she can be so incredibly obnoxious about stuff that really is not at all worth getting that obnoxious about.

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      kemperboydweebleswobble
      4/04/16 11:08am

      Her first answer in the whole thread is amazing. When asked what element of natural parenting is worst she said this:

      “The biggest problem, in my view, is that natural parenting treats children as products, not people. The idea is that with the correct inputs (unmedicated vaginal birth, breastfeeding, etc.) you can reliably create a child whose achievements you can brag about.”

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    randilynisFINDILYNAnna Merlan
    4/04/16 10:56am

    A Growing Debate Over Whether Naturopaths Should Treat Children

    They should treat them. To an ice cream cone after their pediatrician’s appointment.

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      NotOkayrandilynisFINDILYN
      4/04/16 11:13am

      Guess I’ll have to post this again! So fucking hilarious and depressing.

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      randilynisFINDILYNNotOkay
      4/04/16 11:24am

      I’m dead. Defibrillate me with a lightening bolt.

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    Rando CalrissianAnna Merlan
    4/04/16 10:44am

    I don’t know about criminal charges, but their other children need to be taken away. These white people get to keep their children, meanwhile Native American families have an uphill battle getting theirs back from white foster parents who never had the option to adopt. FFS.

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      MujerRando Calrissian
      4/04/16 10:50am

      I don’t know, they were criminally negligent but I would wonder at if this was at the behest of a naturopath claiming scientific studies.

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      weebleswobbleMujer
      4/04/16 10:53am

      Snake oil salesmen (and that’s essentially what these kind of naturopaths are) are very charming and convincing and I can entirely buy that these people thought they were doing what was best for their kid. I’m sure s/he had available legitimate looking “studies” from “journals” and “websites.”

      I still think they should face charges and have CPS involved because they are completely responsible for the death of their child (he may not have been saved even with hospital care but he was certainly dead without it), but the naturopath who counseled them belongs behind bars as well.

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    Murry ChangAnna Merlan
    4/04/16 11:04am

    Naturopaths shouldn’t be allowed to treat anyone no matter what their age.

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      The Ancient BooerMurry Chang
      4/04/16 11:15am

      Most naturopaths see themselves as a compliment to traditional Western medicine, not a replacement. NPs are regulated/licensed in my state (Connecticut) and are even covered by my traditional health insurance. I have used one to sort out some food allergies along with my MD/allergist.

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      Murry ChangThe Ancient Booer
      4/04/16 11:23am

      Chiropracty is licensed in many states and is covered under traditional health insurance too, that doesn’t mean it’s anything other than a massage at best or something that can harm you badly or kill you at worst.

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    LynxAnna Merlan
    4/04/16 11:12am

    I think anytime your kid has a high fever, you take them straight to the hospital/doctor.

    I have a hard time believing they be able to successfully argue that they thought it was just a cold.

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      Grim3Lynx
      4/04/16 11:18am

      As a parent, doctors and nurse have emphasized to me that you don’t actually need to take your kid to the hospital for a high fever. But meningitis freaks me out, so definitely any stiffness, specific type of rash, etc. would get me racing over there.

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      saltyladyv4Lynx
      4/04/16 11:38am

      This is what nurse phone lines are great for. They’ll explain that you should give some tylenol or motrin, see if it goes down, and then guide you about whether and when to come in. I have such vivid memories of calling them in the middle of the night about high fevers, croup, etc. Having kids is scary.

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    SodburgerAnna Merlan
    4/04/16 10:49am

    “Natural” is such a buzzword; everyone from hippies to strict conservatives love throwing it around. What is “natural.” If you cook a plant, is it still in it’s “natural” state. Is cocaine “natural” because it’s derived from “natural” elements? If humans are innately “natural,” wouldn’t that mean anything we do to advance society is inherently “natural.”

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      ThirdAmendmentManSodburger
      4/04/16 11:00am

      Hey now, botulinum toxin is natural. That shit works!

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      norbiznessSodburger
      4/04/16 11:01am

      I for one am off of non-’organic’ foods altogether; the toughest thing to cut out of my diet was Styrofoam peanuts

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    AntisocialJusticeWarrior is not Anti-SJWAnna Merlan
    4/04/16 10:52am

    So as a scientist-type person who has also worked at a hippy-dippy natural foods store... I don’t actually think naturopathy is the devil. That being said, it is no substitute for Western medicine or your primary care doctor. I believe that it can have a supplementary relationship with those things, if that’s what you’re into.

    These parents chose to eschew common sense and modern science in favor of naturopathy (and possibly in order to prove a point with the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of their supplement pills?), which is obviously child endangerment. They reallllly shouldn’t have children imho.

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      I'm Fart and I'm SmunnyAntisocialJusticeWarrior is not Anti-SJW
      4/04/16 11:14am

      Agreed. Acupuncture can work for things like chronic pain. And for people like my mother who are allergic to the active ingredients in most cold medicines, natural remedies for things like a minor cold can be the only way to go.

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      AntisocialJusticeWarrior is not Anti-SJWI'm Fart and I'm Smunny
      4/04/16 11:24am

      Mhm yep. My mom does acupuncture too and it works great for helping with her allergies. I’ve also been known to use cramp bark and valerian root tinctures myself.

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    MLeekAnna Merlan
    4/04/16 10:57am

    Even their damn naturopath told them to get their asses to the hospital.

    I am not defending naturopaths in general, but it’s worth noting that without even examining the child in question—only hearing a description of symptoms over the phone—this naturopath said “Take this kid immediately to the hospital.” because, like most charlatans who have no authority to diagnosis and only make their money on the crazy magical thinking of rubes and morons, she still knew that when shit hits the fan you go to a real hospital.

    Parents still didn’t get actual medical help. If for no other reason, that is why they belong in jail.

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      kemperboydMLeek
      4/04/16 11:11am

      They 100% belong in jail, if someone decides not to feed their kid but instead give them water when they are hungry we would expect them to be in prosecuted. So someone who refuses to medically treat a sick child deserves jail. I actually have no time for any of the religious groups that don’t believe in blood transfusions or surgery when it comes to children, we as a society should not allow religious beliefs of parents trump medical needs of children.

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      DangerFloofMLeek
      4/04/16 12:40pm

      I’m pretty sure that I read elsewhere that a nurse acquaintance of the family told them that the kid could have meningitis and to see a doctor, too. It’s definitely not like they weren’t warned and had nooo ideeaaa it wasn’t just a cold. They were just trying to sell their shitty supplements and are still complaining about the attacks on their brand. Fuck them.

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    SL8Rgirl81Anna Merlan
    4/04/16 10:45am

    I can understand STARTING treatment with natural remedies when the kid first starts getting sick, BUT when said child isn’t getting better, and is in fact worsening GET YOUR ASS TO A DOCTOR.

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      kamla deviSL8Rgirl81
      4/04/16 10:53am

      Right, for things like a mild cold/cough, POSSIBLY low-grade fever. Symptoms that if you had them, you would not seek medical care. Otherwise, go to the fucking doctor.

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      ThirdAmendmentManSL8Rgirl81
      4/04/16 10:57am

      I mean sure, you can start with remedies that don’t work. But as you said definitely get your kid (or yourself) to a doctor when that doesn’t work.

      As they say, you know what they call natural remedies that work? Medicine.

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