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    1llamarampage will write againHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:10pm

    I wonder if it also has to do with the differences between the current and past issues faced by people of color in other countries - like, NCIS could essentially take place under the auspices of any government with a navy, but shows about black people produced by American studios are, necessarily, about what it means to be black in America, which is pretty different from what it is to be black in the UK or France or South Africa. I could see them being interesting but not necessarily engaging.

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      whskygirl1llamarampage will write again
      3/30/16 5:19pm

      Yeah, I wondered the same. Maybe it’s just more about being able to understand and relate to culture in the show. For example, I hated Senfield growing up because I grew up in a really small, rural town. I could not relate and did not understand Senfield. Jokes on that show would just go completely over my head. So, maybe it’s a bit like that?

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      ambitious1llamarampage will write again
      3/30/16 5:19pm

      That wouldn’t explain why black-led shows have performed better in the past. And none of these shows have ever been sold and distributed solely (or even primarily) on the strength of their potential to engage black audiences in the markets mentioned.

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    Masshole JamesHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:09pm

    It’s the same with movies. If people wonder why Hollywood doesn’t make more diverse films starring black actors, it’s because the foreign market is all-important now, especially China and that’s all Hollywood cares about. What happened with Star Wars and it’s diverse cast is the latest example because while it became the biggest grossing movie of all time here in the U.S., it didn’t come close overseas because it tanked in China. We might soon be looking at Hollywood films/tv shows filled with Asian actors but with Black and Latino actors all but sidelined.

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      EileenOnSundayNightsAfterAllInTheFamilyOnCBSMasshole James
      3/30/16 5:16pm

      Mind you, the issue in China had nothing to do with the diverse cast but the fact that “Star Wars” doesn’t have the same meaning or relevance in their pop culture. They were pushing The Force Awakens for MONTHS over there, using tried-and-true techniques that work fine in the West, with our immediate connection over 30 years with the movies but nothing to the Chinese, who have no such connection. They sold it as a heritage franchise to people who aren’t invested in or knowledgeable on a mainstream level with the franchise. So I understand where you’re trying to go with this but using that as an example isn’t proof.

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      anniegawker2-electricboogalooMasshole James
      3/30/16 5:17pm

      Priconomics just did a great article about how foreign markets, particularly China, affect movies:

      http://priceonomics.com/hollywoods-new...

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    Andrew DaisukeHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:15pm

    How are shows created by the four networks doing overseas, say compared to Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, HBO, etc?

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      SailingsharksAndrew Daisuke
      3/30/16 5:28pm

      A lot of countries don't have Netflix or Hulu, so it's hard to compare.

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      Andrew DaisukeSailingsharks
      3/30/16 5:30pm

      #prayforthosecountries

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    Cocopop!Hillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:12pm

    I think it’s interesting that part of this has to do with more countries producing their own television content rather than buying American TV shows. I wonder if their casts have been diverse from the outset, or if diversity is something that people will need to push for.

    Really, I’m just wondering when we’re getting new episodes of Empire.

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      miffyatthemuseumCocopop!
      3/30/16 5:15pm

      Empire returns tonight.

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      Rando CalrissianCocopop!
      3/30/16 5:18pm

      Yeah, when you look at stuff like Arne Dahl or most BBC programs they do very well with diverse casts telling stories that are not specific to one ethnic experience. The shows don’t ignore the specificity of ethnic experiences, but they tell them within their own cultures—why wouldn’t people rather watch that than a show about characters living in a radically different culture than their own?

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    ahotpussowHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:13pm

    Why do black shows have to do twice as well to justify their existence at all?

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      paultoesahotpussow
      3/30/16 5:35pm

      Ain’t that the way.

      GIF
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      I'm Fart and I'm Smunnypaultoes
      3/30/16 6:09pm

      Papa Pope makes me feel so conflicted. He is one evil motherfucker, but he is also not usually wrong.

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    CarnyAsadaHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:50pm

    as the golden age of U.S. television becomes more like a collection of really long mini-films, other countries aren’t really as invested

    I’m confused by this, though: Telenovelas, the Latin American form of serialized romance where a complete story is told in a single season, have been wildly popular in Russia and China since the 1990s. I don’t think diverse characters are the issue.

    What I suspect is the more important factor is that Telenovelas feature familiar plots and character types: the jealous husband, the wronged-but-faithful wife, the comical domestics, the scheming rival, the happy ending (usually a wedding). A show like “Empire,” which tells a peculiarly American story about fame and economic ambition, may not translate well regardless of the color of the cast.

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      shelwoodCarnyAsada
      3/30/16 6:04pm

      This is specifically talking about English-speaking countries (Canada, UK, Australia), but, yeah, pretty much everyone has their own form of soap opera. However, the long-arc 10-24 episode seasons of current shows can be a tough swallow in places that are used to 3-6 episodes long seasons/series, like the UK (even though they do have their own soaps).

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      CarnyAsadashelwood
      3/30/16 9:46pm

      This is NOT specifically talking about English-speaking countries (or Germany wouldn’t be on the list of places Empire isn’t doing so well). If you click through to the original article, it’s talking about the global market, and says, “It would be simplistic to call viewers in Europe, Canada or Asia racist.”

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    kaisondawsonHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:27pm

    I would say this is more to do with torrents my sons and their friends watch empire and game of thrones sometimes 5 hours after it airs while you might have to wait 3 days or weeks for the episode to air on tv. a good example is game of thrones where I heard the Australia tv channel is a year behind so its the most pirated show.

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      DaisyLadykaisondawson
      3/30/16 5:44pm

      I watched all of Downton Abbey as it was airing in the UK months before it landed here in the US. I’m not sure it has a huge effect but I imagine it does have some.

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      IAMRU2kaisondawson
      3/31/16 12:17am

      Yeah, Australia massively lags behind - we don’t get shows until well after the rest of the world, so if shows are airing in the US and then no one seems to be watching them (...12 months later...) in Australia, it might be because they’re being downloaded illegally or because we’ve heard all the highlights anyway (so why watch?).

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    BekabyHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:26pm

    With all due respect to Timothy Havens, I am having a hard time accepting his premise that Fresh Prince broke new ground by being a youth oriented sitcom. Wasn’t that essentially what Happy Days was? Or Charles in Charge?

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      Cherith CutestoryBekaby
      3/30/16 5:36pm

      Family Ties, The Hogan Family, Growing Pains.

      Fresh Prince was cooler though.

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      EileenOnSundayNightsAfterAllInTheFamilyOnCBSBekaby
      3/30/16 5:57pm

      In Europe, Asia, and Africa, it certainly was.

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    paultoesHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:39pm
    ...one-and-done shows like NCIS, where if you miss an episode you’re not completely lost.

    Doesn’t the term “one-and-done” refer to shows that only last a single season, whether by design or due to cancellation?

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      Marillenbaumpaultoes
      3/30/16 11:17pm

      Yeah, what they mean is episodic or procedural, versus a serialized show where you need to have seen the past episodes for the current plot points to make sense.

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    EileenOnSundayNightsAfterAllInTheFamilyOnCBSHillary Crosley Coker
    3/30/16 5:20pm

    “Empire” is fun. But it isn’t any good.

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      Cherith CutestoryEileenOnSundayNightsAfterAllInTheFamilyOnCBS
      3/30/16 5:43pm

      I don’t think Glee did very well overseas either.

      Empire isn’t as bad as Glee but music shows might have some trouble transitioning.

      Although both also feature LGBT characters too, which may be less accepted. So, lots of balls in the air.

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      EileenOnSundayNightsAfterAllInTheFamilyOnCBSCherith Cutestory
      3/30/16 5:56pm

      Oh, I don’t think it’s that. The English and Europeans have absorbed LGBTs into soaps and even kids TV in a way that we’re just barely touching in the U.S. right now. But we’re almost on a complete par with them and them with us.

      Glee was pretty awful and the humor wouldn’t all translate, I think. You’d need to understand the cultural references and accept them. Frankly, some of the characters in Glee who were outcast would be considered popular kids in another culture.

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