Discussion
  • Read More
    ReverandRichardWayneGaryWayneHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:32am

    Sports are one of the ways you “get in the door” with potential students. They might not even hear of your school if not for football or basketball, especially for public universities looking to attract out of state students.

    And with the divestment of the states in public education, more and more of the operation of universities is dependent on tuition revenue, so getting kids in the door (especially out of state students who pay more) is critical.

    A deep run in the NCAA tournament or a bowl win can be way more effective marketing than an ad campaign.

    Which is to say, yes, people should be paid a living wage, and yes, universities should take a hard look at what they spend on athletics versus the return, but as others have said on this thread it is not as simple as moving money from the athletics bucket to the wage bucket. There are other complex consequences.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      The ever-present football-player rapistReverandRichardWayneGaryWayne
      3/17/16 10:36am

      The type of students attracted to a school because of its games is not the type of student universities need.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      Hamilton NolanReverandRichardWayneGaryWayne
      3/17/16 10:38am

      Yes, it can be effective marketing. But as the links above show, the vast majority of schools lose money on sports (and do not make great tournament runs either). In aggregate it’s a loser’s game.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    VF750FHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:39am

    If professor pay is so low, why is tuition so high?

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Hamilton NolanVF750F
      3/17/16 10:40am

      This is a wonderful question to ask a college president.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      BrianGriffinVF750F
      3/17/16 10:43am

      Most of my public school, union high school teachers were paid considerably more than my doctorate-having non-Union college professors. Craziness.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    kyngfishHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:29am

    The adjunct situation is really bad in this country. I especially love the irony because people that may defend low wages often say such and such job “deserves” a certain wage, usually relating to fast-food workers. If this country is so keen on paying people what they “deserve” why are our teachers making shit wages? Do they contribute less to society than accountants? How do you even quantify it?

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      2SlicesOfPepkyngfish
      3/17/16 10:34am

      I believe the reason why they are paid so much less is just that, it’s hard to quantify their contribution. It’s massive, but it’s a moving target at all times.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      BobbySeriouskyngfish
      3/17/16 10:35am

      By “deserve”, they mean what the “market dictates”, ie, how little they can get away with paying people and still retain employees.

      Chris Rock has a great riff on about wages...

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    legaltrutherHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:27am

    The money used to pay for sports typically comes from a mix of different sources. Many of those sources would disappear if the sports themselves disappeared - shared revenue from conference TV packages, for example. So you can’t just assume that the University has $X available for sports that could be shifted to pay professors. If basketball is defunded, for example, then much of the money that pays for basketball also disappears and won’t be there to pay professors. Not all of it, mind you, but at many schools it would be a large enough proportion that the remaining surplus won’t put a dent in the adjunct pay problem. What would do it, though, would be eliminating many administrative positions - they compete directly for the funding sources that would otherwise pay adjuncts.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Petehammerlegaltruther
      3/17/16 10:30am

      All valid points. All will be ignored from HamNo’s tower of condescension.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      tom.blerschlegaltruther
      3/17/16 10:34am

      There’s always the unwritten assumption in any story like this (not just here) that “money is money.” But usually, it isn’t - it’s allocated to a specific purpose or account in the general ledger, and can’t be moved easily (or at all).

      I don’t know how colleges manage their accounts. But if someone told me they couldn’t take money from the sports program and give it to adjunct professors without committing accounting fraud, I would be entirely unsurprised.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    lurklurklurkHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:38am

    This is why I’m getting out of academia. In my subfield, there are maybe 4-5 tenure-track jobs a year in the US. There are many, many more graduates and post-docs generated per year. It’s cut throat. We’re all smart - we’ve got PhD’s! But the universities just aren’t growing departments by adding permanent faculty positions in my field. So as needed, they create these adjunct faculty positions which are comparatively cheap and come with little to no job security.

    Being on the job market outside of academia is hard, don’t get me wrong - I’ve had a few nibbles but nothing’s bitten, and all of my potential employers seem to see my long time spent in academia as a liability - but at least I am consistently finding new jobs that I can apply to *in my city.*

    Imagine having to pull up stakes and move to a new town every couple of years, because that’s where the job is. That is *common* for adjunct faculty.

    Meanwhile, the students are getting fleeced on tuition. Something’s gotta give, here.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      FridayFridaylurklurklurk
      3/17/16 10:43am

      It’s why I left, too, even though I loved my field and really enjoyed teaching. It’s not worth it. I decided I didn’t want to waste 15+ years of my life in poverty for a chance at tenure and a living wage down the road. I work in real estate now, and things are pretty good here. Good luck finding something. Despite what some people say, the abilities to read, write, research and analyze at a higher level are pretty universally valued in a corporate setting, and you have that going for you.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      Negasonic Oldage Warheadlurklurklurk
      3/17/16 10:44am

      Sorry, but a PhD doesn’t make you smart. It just means you spent a lot of money to go to school for a long time.

      Note that this also does not mean you’re not smart.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    AnalogErikHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:28am

    I am an adjunct professor, and I do it for supplementary income on top of my job. Anyone who is an adjunct and trying to do that for a living isn’t playing the game right. Just saying.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Not A Burner 4 - The Final BurnerAnalogErik
      3/17/16 10:35am

      Except the game has been rigged by administrators and tenured faculty. Just saying.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      Hamilton NolanAnalogErik
      3/17/16 10:36am

      The story points out that for most adjuncts, this is not the case. This is similar to the “minimum wage jobs are just for high school kids” argument. Also not reflective of current reality.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    PeteRRHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:30am

    Cut two layers of administrative bloat, get rid of the rock climbing walls and other BS amenities, institute mandatory retirement for tenured faculty at 72 and it should free up enough money to pay instructors what they are worth.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      2SlicesOfPepPeteRR
      3/17/16 10:34am

      And fire bad teachers.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      Endless Supply of CynicismPeteRR
      3/17/16 10:39am

      Sure you may be a nobel prize winner, but you’re 72 now. Your lifetime of accumulated expertise in your field isn’t valuable anymore. There’s a fresh graduate who needs your spot. Cya.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    maryjamesbligeHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:37am

    In unrelated news, the Georgetown player shooting the layup in the cover picture is Tre Campbell. I went to middle school with him in Northern Virginia. He called me fat.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Hamilton Nolanmaryjamesblige
      3/17/16 10:40am

      Good comment, thank you.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      ADeadspinBurnermaryjamesblige
      3/17/16 10:42am

      Well, were you fat?

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    optimus_rhymeHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:27am

    Im actually really glad to see you shining some line on this HamNo. Almost all of my best teachers in college were adjuncts, which means they were teaching classes far better and for much less then the teachers there getting paid more to do a shittier job. A couple of them occasionally even brought this up in lessons. Although I went to an art college so its arguably a bit different then ‘normal college’. None of these classes could have been taught out of a book.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      2SlicesOfPepoptimus_rhyme
      3/17/16 10:33am

      So why not just fire the bad professors? Would the union not like that?

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      optimus_rhyme2SlicesOfPep
      3/17/16 10:37am

      You fire the bad professors,sure, and they get replaced by maybe good maybe bad professors. Doing that doesn’t have any effect on the problem at hand at all. The adjuncts are still just there getting paid less.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    Ed SpockHamilton Nolan
    3/17/16 10:35am

    Politicians and private sector leaders when asked why corporations pay such outrageous salaries and benefits: “Because, we need to offer these kinds of salaries in order to attract and retain the best talent”

    Politicians and private sector leaders when asked why the same kind of logic doesn’t apply to educators: “Because, fuck ‘em”

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      flamingolingoEd Spock
      3/17/16 11:51am

      That logic still applies to administrators, however. Many of them come from the corporate world, which explains why U.S. universities have basically been turned into multinational corporations with schools attached.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      Ed Spockflamingolingo
      3/17/16 1:03pm

      You’re right.

      The school district I live in has had 7 superintendents in the last 15 years. 4 of which were fired because they were crap, getting severance packages in the process of course.

      Yet every time they hire a new one and offer him/her a contract around 200 grand or more the same bullshit line about “We GOTTA offer this kind of money if we want to get the best talent.” Is always used by the BOE to justify it to the public.

      When they talk about how to get more good teachers to work in, or not leave, the district and someone says “Why don’t you significantly increase their salaries.” They just look at you like that is the most retarded idea ever.

      Reply
      <