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    jinniTracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:10pm

    It’s just like you’d guess: Men primarily want younger, more attractive women, and women primarily want someone ambitious with financial stability. Again, this isn’t new. We know that high-achieving women have famously complained of a lack of eligible men they consider their intellectual equals. Heartthrob George Clooney falling for the brilliant Amal Alamuddin is heartening but rare.

    She is sixteen years younger than he; and gloriously beautiful. Also, he is wealthy and ambitious. She does have a magnificent career, but, otherwise, the trope still holds.

    (ETA: The cliché that men do not fall for smart women is age-old; and I think rather false. Before my brain-injury, and sudden loss of confidence in that regard, I did not lack for male suitors: for this reason precisely. My smartest girlfriends are nicely paired, unless it is they who have decided to go solo..... In every aspect of this society, being intelligent gives one a distinct advantage. We blame those who are not so-blessed in a way that we would not were the question their looks, for example. The way that intelligent people diminish those who are not is disheartening to me. Poverty, ill-fortune, domestic abuse rise precipitously with a lack of education. Women who are so-condemned do not have an easy time of it at all.)

    Very interesting article, though!

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      chienfoujinni
      1/30/16 3:16pm

      Agree. If he’d married a 50 year old molecular biologist with some gray hair and a few wrinkles, then he can be used as an example. Otherwise, nope.

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      Rando Calrissianjinni
      1/30/16 3:19pm

      I’m not sure it’s true that women want someone who is ambitious and financially secure. In the past that may have been true when we had little means of becoming financially independent. But now, at least, most of my female friends and myself look for a man who will treat us as an equal and support us emotionally. Those are the top criteria in my circles.

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    crankylittlephotonTracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:18pm

    Eh. I’ve had plenty of dudes run screaming from me based on my intellect/job/demanding personality. I’ve also dated guys that found those traits really attractive. It’s almost as if men are all unique beings with their own likes and desires...

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      anyah8sbunniescrankylittlephoton
      1/30/16 3:32pm

      That’s just crazy talk!

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      Mary-Gracecrankylittlephoton
      1/30/16 3:47pm

      Right? I’m not really sure this article is fair. We could draw a lot from literature (and surveys of college students) that has nothing to do with real life. It left me feeling like my husband is some kind of freak of nature. I’m not the cutest or youngest girl to ever hit on him, and I honestly believe him when he tells me that what drew him to me the most was that I would stand up to him with my beliefs. We’ve been together 10 years now and we still love a good intellectual debate.

      Also, women aren’t immune from being shallow as hell. If only I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard a lady say she won’t date someone under 6 feet tall.

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    I'm Fart and I'm SmunnyTracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:23pm

    Over the holidays, I was eavesdropping on my brother and his friend talking about girls, and my brother has a girlfriend right now, but things are just kinda eh between them. And he said that he’s afraid he won’t find another girl on his same social intelligence level. I actually did a spit take, which sucked because I was drinking wine, but it was too damn funny. But then they preceded to analyze every little aspect of girls. How much or how little they wear, how much they drink, if they are a “nice girl” or not, and while my blood was boiling, I think I realized men usually think they deserve the perfect girl, and girls usually just want a guy who is not a creep, treats us with respect, and [insert personal preference here]. It might be just me, but most guys I know really do expect perfection in some sort of way, while girls see perfection as a fantasy.

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      DontBeSuchaBoobPunchTinaI'm Fart and I'm Smunny
      1/30/16 3:47pm

      This reminds me of a conversation overheard between a good friend’s boyfriend and his best friend. It was years ago, but it’s still vivid to me because we were gobsmacked by what they were saying.

      They were trying to decide whether or not a girl we all knew - who happened to be remarkably beautiful - was pretty enough for the friend to consider asking out.

      He was not very attractive, and had a really negative personality, and he still thought he’d be doing her a favor if he chose to bestow his attention upon her. They both did! They just took this for granted as a given.

      They didn’t even consider whether or not she’d say yes.

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      Nom de pixelI'm Fart and I'm Smunny
      1/30/16 3:49pm

      That is so true. Some guys never outgrow it. I know a guy who is about 40. He has what is basically a checklist for the women he dates. They have to be pretty and athletic and have good jobs and like to travel. Because he has finally decided that he wants to settle down and have kids, they also have to be younger than him. He puts so much emphasis on those things, then he gets upset when someone he is dating gets jealous easily or isn't someone that he can just hang out and be comfortable with. I just told him that he has to decide what is important in a relationship.

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    Euryale3Tracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:50pm

    Ugh, why does it have to be a competition?

    “Dating a clever woman opens you up to a world of hurt male pride, and constant reminders of your own woefully slow, Y-chromosome-impeded cognitive ability, Curtis explains. “Marrying a smart girl makes it worse.””

    If that smart girl is also more physically attractive, more gracious and also a better person (as smart girls tend to be) than you, then you’d better have a pretty solid sense of self-esteem, fella. Or be too damn dumb to notice.”

    I mean, for real. Work on your self esteem, which is different from macho posturing. And what the fuck does it matter who is more attractive, more gracious, a better person, etc. If we could separate masculinity from the need to be the best at everything, separate relationships from whatever BS dominance hierarchy, everyone would be so much happier.

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      MarillenbaumEuryale3
      1/30/16 4:05pm

      THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!

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      VulcansAreHeartbreakersEuryale3
      1/30/16 4:12pm

      Right? All that talk of ‘alphas’ was laughable. If you’re a real alpha-type person why wouldn’t you want someone who challenges you? Isn’t that their thing? Being a go-getter and waking up before noon on Saturdays and all that exhausting shit?

      If you need to feel better than everyone around you, then you’re not a strong person. You just wish you were.

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    Adrastra, patron saint of snarkTracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:09pm

    I can’t help thinking that the reason women in literature are so focused on finding intellectual/moral equals is because that’s something that can often be rare in the real world, especially in less-than-recent times. Of course women want someone (romantically) who sees them as an equal, given that this search can be difficult even amongst friends and colleagues. It makes sense that men would be less focused on this, as their contemporaries already see them as equals (if not better).

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      anyah8sbunniesAdrastra, patron saint of snark
      1/30/16 3:33pm

      Have you been online dating lately? There’s an awful lot of stupid out there

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      DanceswithPeeps The Burner v2.1Adrastra, patron saint of snark
      1/30/16 3:48pm

      A woman who was a writer was also more likely to have different expectations in a mate than the average. Elizabeth Bennet wanted an intellectual equal. Jane wanted a loving, kind man. The younger girls wanted handsome men in spiffy uniforms and lots of parties.

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    Octopit didn't choose the burrito life, the burrito life chose octopit.Tracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:43pm

    ‘That women are still burdened to save a relationship by playing to a man’s ego in the first place is really bleak, but you play the cards you’re dealt in the game you’re stuck playing.’

    NOPE. Noppppppe. A million times, ALL OF THE NOPE.

    Spinsterhood for life.

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      scowly brow spinsterOctopit didn't choose the burrito life, the burrito life chose octopit.
      1/30/16 3:52pm

      Agreed.

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      MarillenbaumOctopit didn't choose the burrito life, the burrito life chose octopit.
      1/30/16 4:05pm

      We can be The Spinsterhood: we’ll make T-shirts, and have pets, and knitting circles and bowling nights and wine tastings and say “fuck” a lot and it will be GREAT!

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    EldritchTracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:31pm

    For a lot of history, marrying for romantic love just wasn’t the norm. Women examining a potential spouse for intelligence and financial stability rather than swoony romantic emotions makes sense. Marriage was a business transaction which they had very little control over.

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      VulcansAreHeartbreakersEldritch
      1/30/16 3:48pm

      This is still true in many parts of the world. Marriage is something that’s expected, and you do it to strengthen your family. Plenty of people won’t marry for love, or view it as a luxury.

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      JustTheTippiHedrenEldritch
      1/30/16 4:05pm

      Yeah, if marriage is going to be your only job option, you’re going to try to get the best salary and benefits, preferably with a stable employer.

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    macgynverTracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:23pm

    I’ve had good luck/results with men despite being pretty brainy, but never had a “best friend” that so many people have. Still hoping...

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      TotoroRecallmacgynver
      1/30/16 3:43pm

      Let’s be best friends!

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      spacejamandjellymacgynver
      1/30/16 3:44pm

      You’re not alone in that. Someone who felt like my bestie up and married had kids verrrry young and hardly talks to me now (lives across country), even though the few times we’ve been able to spend super quality time the last few years it literally feels like the world is in place because we have each other back! But then she goes back to kid and family land and just for.gets. about me (even when I reach out).

      My current bff of a few years- I love her, but there’s a lot I can’t share with her or she doesn’t resonate with because we were raised differently (she’s from out of the country). I do have a group of awesome women friends, though, that I make sure to spend one on one time with on a regular basis. They’re amazing. If you can’t have the “one,” (sounds romantic, doesn’t it), this is a pretty awesome option (and it can evolve from there).

      I have noticed that my friendships with women are 100x more fulfilling than those with men, especially as I get older - more empathic, more of a meeting of minds, more supportive, more nourishing, etc. I wish this wasn’t the case! I’m a very-mostly heterosexual bisexual woman, and always saw myself with a man, but I wonder now. Really, I do. If I could have the thing I have with platonic women friends with a man but sexually and romantically I’d be in life-heaven, but I’m starting to seriously consider whether or not the “man”and bio-kids thing is important. The normal script has never made me happy. (But who knows, I could get lucky and meet some really empathic man who respects and is excited to meet someone of intelligence and who also holds forth in conversation and the bedroom!)

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    DontBeSuchaBoobPunchTinaTracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:40pm

    So if a woman wants to be the surly bastard in a relationship, and goes for sunny-dispositioned men, she’s just doomed, huh.

    I believe it. This might explain a few things in my own life...

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      MarillenbaumDontBeSuchaBoobPunchTina
      1/30/16 4:06pm

      I just want someone to bring me Taco Bell and kombucha when I’m hungover, tbh.

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      DontBeSuchaBoobPunchTinaMarillenbaum
      1/30/16 4:09pm

      That has me waxing nostalgic for the boyfriend who would make Hangover Omelets. Sigh. That was nice.

      He was a great guy in general. Too bad we were a mismatch! But oh, those omelets...

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    AnemoneTracy Moore
    1/30/16 3:15pm

    I honestly don’t think I could feel safe with someone who didn’t respect my intellect. I know some men find it hot, but that’s not the same thing as someone who actually wants to know what I think about things and why. And that meeting of minds is pretty much necessary for me to be able to let down my guard with someone. Also it’s pretty important when I need to set limits/boundaries. Is he even listening?

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      uptightdowntownAnemone
      1/30/16 3:38pm

      You articulated my feelings exactly! I’ve dated men before who weren’t necessarily intimidated by my intellect, but they also couldn’t appreciate it as a crucial part of who I am. For me to truly open up to someone, they must be able to understand how I think, and value what I think about.

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      PersnicketyPantsAnemone
      1/30/16 5:23pm

      Not to mention, how do you build a LTR with someone who is not an intellectual equal? It sounds like it would eventually become boring.

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