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    Alex CHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:45am

    Here’s the thing though, when you raise prices to match the cost of labor, of course it doesn’t hurt profitability. But when you raise prices it does effect per capita purchasing power. So basically, you’re giving people $15, but that $15 is effectively only worth what $7.25 was pre-wage hike anyway, because you can buy less with it. Furthermore, it effectively pushes middle class people who don’t get a raise closer to poverty, as they see their PPP drop in correspondence.

    Let’s go back to the example from earlier this week. That shitty lottery math. Everyone was up in arms because the math was wrong. That wasn’t the only issue. Even if you gave every American $4 million, then $4 million would be worth what $1 is now. Same concept with minimum wage hikes. The minimum wage will be perpetually worth the same even if you raised it to $100 an hour, or $1,000 an hour. Doesn’t matter. Because that’s what it is, a wage floor.

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      badchipmunkAlex C
      1/15/16 9:50am

      Over a long time scale, you are correct, but in the short term it helps significantly, since the ripple effect takes a while to propagate through the economy. So, if we take our fast food workers here, their relative income will increase (since not everyone gets a raise in the economy, only the lowest rung), giving them more disposable income with which they can buy more stuff, or hopefully invest in an education/skill that can boost them up an additional rung.

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      kyngfishAlex C
      1/15/16 9:57am

      Prices don’t rise equally with minimum wage hikes. That’s some shitty math.

      Higher wages also means higher disposable income. The vast majority of American wealth is in low-risk investment, which is good for the people with vast amounts of cash, and not really doing shit for the economy as a whole.

      Also, upward pressure on wages from the bottom, don’t negatively impact the middle class, on the contrary, they put pressure to pay the middle class more.

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    MaraasHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:37am

    Came in to say they’re not worth 15$ an hour. I don’t care if you’ve got a family of four, if you’ve made fast food a career and you’re trying to raise a family as a lowly cashier/burger flipper, you have no one to blame but yourself for your low income. It’s certainly not meant to be paid as much as cops or paramedics, or teachers just because you made poor life decisions and have to slap together pre-processed burgers for a living. I’m all for raising the minimum wage, but let’s try something reasonable. And if that doesn’t meet what you need, maybe you should look for a new job.

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      AnnieBodyMaraas
      1/15/16 9:44am

      But then who the hell will work in restaurants? I like to eat out sometimes. In 2013 there were 3,653,168 fast food workers alone (so not including sit-down restaurants with their cooks, dishwashers, wait staff etc). All of these should be transitional jobs where people only work for short periods of time and move on? Won’t it cost businesses a lot to constantly recruit and train workers? Do you think everyone has the skills and frankly intelligence to go for high paying, competitive jobs? Are there enough jobs like this to employ all these people? It seems like we want to eat at restaurants so restaurants need employees, why shouldn’t they earn enough support a decent existence?

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      TeenaBurnerMaraas
      1/15/16 9:45am

      Cops and teachers get more than 15 an hour, though. I imagine they’d continue to do so.

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    raincoasterHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:32am

    It makes complete sense. After all, if prices at McDonalds go up (by I think 17-45 cents a burger was the estimate for the $15 hour wage) then prices at Burger King, A&W and the rest will all go up by the same amount. Nobody is going to look at a price increase of fifty cents and decide to cook at home, except perhaps the desperately poor, of whom there will be fewer once $15 is the minimum wage, or we have a guaranteed income.

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      benjaminalloverraincoaster
      1/15/16 9:37am

      This food is underpriced - to the detriment of people’s health- as it is.

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      Achieveraincoaster
      1/15/16 9:37am

      “Guaranteed income”? An employer owes you guaranteed income? Or are you speaking of working for income, witch in turn would guarantee your generating income?

      Also, what do the employers get for this increase being paid out? What more are the current employees going to do to earn the additional pay?

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    botticelliloveHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:32am

    The people desperately looking for reasons to be against the minimum wage hikes (against all evidence that says the hikes are GOOD) are the same people who believe that fast food workers don’t deserve $15 an hour because “when they started at X job, they didn’t make that much and they paid for college on top of it.”

    It makes my blood boil. By all means, get pissed at the poor people actively organizing to make their lives better instead of the broken higher education system and your corporate overlords who dictate your wages and caused this crap in the first place.

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      AnnieBodybotticellilove
      1/15/16 9:39am

      See I think that’s why facts and logic don’t really work in these sorts of arguments. It’s not about logic, it’s about a moral judgment and to some degree, the second rung effect: if they get more, than it diminishes how much more I make than them. I mean, the answer to that would be: maybe you should make more too (we underpay a lot of salaried employees: teachers, firefighters etc.). But it’s a lot easier to punch down.

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      badchipmunkAnnieBody
      1/15/16 9:44am

      This a million times over. I hear the same argument “fast food workers don’t _deserve_ $15/hr! I’m a ____ and I make that!” It’s all about judgment, rather than thinking “well, maybe I’m worth more than $15/hr myself, and perhaps I should fight for better wages as a result.” I think part of it is that after manufacturing jobs left, Capital blamed expensive union labor as the reason, so people are afraid to ask for more money thinking the same thing will happen to them.

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    kyngfishHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:31am

    Republicans have ignored all kinds of things having to do with reality and logic. We keep publishing studies, time to try another tactic.

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      bonjour tristessekyngfish
      1/15/16 9:36am

      If we could somehow relate a wage increase with guns and Jesus, they’d probably get behind it.

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      XrdsAlumkyngfish
      1/15/16 9:36am

      The only way the GOP base learns is by hard personal experience. Even then they're more likely to place the blame on liberals and racial minorities.

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    benjaminalloverHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:42am

    Oh look; a bunch of spiteful greys who make slightly more than minimum wage and didn’t read the article.

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      Corbettobenjaminallover
      1/15/16 11:53am

      Is it greys or grays. I need clarification for the next time I get trolled.

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      benjaminalloverCorbetto
      1/15/16 11:56am

      I’m Canadian so it’s ‘grey’ with me like the rest of the English speaking world, but I respect your right as an American to spell it incorrectly ;)

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    TaylorSwiftKickToTheBallsHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:50am

    If you are past 25 years old and still on minimum wage you have bigger problems than getting paid more at McDonalds. Do you not understand, you raise minimum wage, then prices raise, then we are back to the same starting point. If raising minimum wage would solve all the problems, why not bring it up to $100/hour? If you say that’s crazy, well you prove your own point. Raise it up to $100 and prices will increase the same. The best way to raise minimum wage is on your own. DO something for your self, learn a new position, get promoted, go somewhere else. Not all restaurants pay minimum wage. Apply somewhere else. Odds are if you are making minimum wage it’s because that is all you are worth. Quit waiting on someone to give you more money, make it yourself.

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      911DucktailTaylorSwiftKickToTheBalls
      1/15/16 10:44am

      Do you not understand, you raise minimum wage, then prices raise, then we are back to the same starting point.

      no, thats not how economics work. The minimum wage has been raised ~two dozen times since 1938 and what your claiming will happen has never happened.

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      TaylorSwiftKickToTheBalls911Ducktail
      1/15/16 11:13am

      So prices have not raised since 1938?

      ETA: If a minimum wage increase solved all the problems, then the first one would have been sufficient. But you say it is not because things cost more now. So obviously raising minimum wage is a short term solution until the market prices re balance. Then you want to raise it again.

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    librarian11Hamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 10:25am

    They’ve solved the problem by modernizing and automating order taking. Thus reducing the need for as many workers. So enjoy your raise from the unemployment lines.

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      Nicolibrarian11
      1/15/16 3:01pm

      Automation is yet another factor we need to consider for our society to successfully move forward. I'm not sure why you think poverty wages will stop the march of technology (they definitely wont). Check out CGP Grey's "Humans need not apply" if you're actually interested in a good take on the subject.

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      librarian11Nico
      1/18/16 4:07pm

      Cost vs benefit. Automation is still too costly for some jobs. If lower skill/low pay jobs become more expensive, the cost difference of automation becomes lower and more appealing.

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    Donald PumpHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:59am

    Anyone who has a basic understanding of economics knows this. Even if a business has to raise prices marginally it doesn't have an effect on diners. Dining out is luxury not a necessity and people aren't that price sensitive. If your breakfast costs $17 instead of $15 you aren't going to stop eating that breakfast.

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      ReburnsABurningReturnsDonald Pump
      1/15/16 10:30am

      Of course you’ll eat breakfast. Price increases tend to make people consider other alternatives, however.

      It’s worth pointing out that the study authors specifically said that their conclusions are only workable with “relatively modest” increases, specifically pointing out that their conclusions can’t be taken as conclusions that the large kinds of minimum wage increases that are often advocated for won’t have detrimental effects on employment and the restaurant industry.

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      ReversionToTheMeanDonald Pump
      1/15/16 10:48am

      you assume that businesses arent already charging the best price they can — if the market could bear $17 vs $15 without demand going down, they would be charging that

      that would be an example of a basic understanding of economics

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    Low Information BoaterHamilton Nolan
    1/15/16 9:32am

    Opposition to a proper minimum wage is more about preserving one's tenuous place on the economic ladder than worrying about how it's going to affect McD's bottom line. The same fear has animated racists since the downfall of phrenology.

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      AnchoweresqueLow Information Boater
      1/15/16 9:40am

      Agreed. People rarely ever mix in public spaces anymore, but to take an easy example I’d imagine these people would be aghast to find out that their kids are in the same cohort (public school, swimming class, little league) as kids whose parents work at McDonalds.

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