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benjaminalloverAllie Jones
11/16/15 10:21am
Good. This was a stupid bill. Anyone who has not gone through the traumatizing, enraging, years-long process of having rape charges filed and prosecuted has nothing to say about forcing it on someone, especially when they are trying to stay in University. That’s a terrible choice that only a victim can make for herself/himself.
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  10" Rubber Bilbobenjaminallover
  11/16/15 10:29am
  Okay, fine: So then put regular legal safeguards into campus rape investigations. Confrontation of accusers, presentation of evidence, questioning of witnesses, presumption of innocence, right to speedy ‘trial’, right to counsel, right of appeal, no double jeopardy, etc, etc.
  
  You should welcome this: Doing all this will help the anti-rape movement as well as individual victims. Otherwise it’ll just be cases like Duke/UVA/Columbia over and over and over again.
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  w_t_fbenjaminallover
  11/16/15 10:39am
  Well I have mixed feelings about this. Not that I am against the pratical grounds for this protest.
  
  Question is more like, if “normal system” is so fucked up that people need to rely on some parallel justice system, shoudn’t it be a real urgent thing to fix?
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Murry ChangAllie Jones
11/16/15 10:23am
“The Fair Campus Act, however, is still curiously and conservatively concerned with the rights of the accused.”

Wow what? Do you not want the accused to have rights, or are we just supposed to treat all accused rapists as if they are actual rapists and automatically kick them out of school? Because that’s very American of you...

No but seriously, this is a perfectly reasonable bill. Rapes should be dealt with by the police and not by campus administration, all accused rapists should be treated as innocent until proven guilty. If there is a problem with the police responding to rape reports then we need to do something to fix that problem. What we don’t need to do is put more power in the hands of college administrators.
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  brighterMurry Chang
  11/16/15 10:32am
  Great, what are you going to do to change policing so it’s not as traumatizing to survivors? Bear in mind these are the same police who are on trial for rape in Oklahoma, and for beating and shooting unarmed minorities in many places in the US?
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  Murry Changbrighter
  11/16/15 10:35am
  Yes, if that’s where the problem is then that is what we should be looking at changing. College administrators are not and should not be law enforcement officers or criminal judges.
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youcuntseemeAllie Jones
11/16/15 10:16am
Would love someone to explain to me why it’s “curious” to be concerned with the rights of the accused. Seems sort of important in what mostly degenerates into a she-said/he-said situation.

Also, like it or not, but people accused of a crime have rights too.
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  Alex W Livingstonyoucuntseeme
  11/16/15 10:30am
  Ah, found one. Listen, just because you think it’s your role and your priveledge to not have your crimes questioned, people are starting to wake up. Happy 21st century.
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  10" Rubber BilboAlex W Livingston
  11/16/15 10:35am
  Well, good news: We have a robust, well-developed procedure for questioning crimes. Some would say it’s one of the jewels of our civilization.
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김치전!Allie Jones
11/16/15 10:29am

GIF

Get ready for some Serious Constitutional Scholarship in this comments section.
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  imakeokaybeans김치전!
  11/16/15 10:40am
  Every single comment in the grays makes me think the seas aren’t rising fast enough to swallow us all.
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  madameboimakeokaybeans
  11/16/15 11:10am
  I've only read the black comments and they are pretty bad, too.
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isitgrayorgreyAllie Jones
11/16/15 10:30am
wait, the SAFE Campus Act protects the rapists? who in the everloving f*ck of the ghost of George Orwellian ‘doublespeak’ came up with this monstrosity?
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  10" Rubber Bilboisitgrayorgrey
  11/16/15 10:40am
  Only if you count things like ‘presumption of innocence’ as ‘protecting’ those accused of rape.
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  jroberts548isitgrayorgrey
  11/16/15 10:42am
  It “protects” rapists by sending accusers to the cops. That’s not really protection.
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baehlAllie Jones
11/16/15 10:19am
Lord forbid we have both parties being represented equally in the matter. Guilty before proven innocent has been working famously.

Please explain to me how it is bad for a victim of a crime to go to the police? Isn’t that the first step toward obtaining justice? Take it to an actual court, not the court of public opinion. I guess I’m confused.
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  youcuntseemebaehl
  11/16/15 10:27am
  Because the process of reporting and prosecuting an alleged rape is really hard for the alleged victim and they need an easier way they can get their rapist punished while requiring as little evidence as possible. Apparently.
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  brighterbaehl
  11/16/15 10:30am
  Read “Missoula” by Jon Krakauer. You won’t be confused any longer.
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ArdenAllie Jones
11/16/15 10:34am
College: “we will never really investigate rape claims”

Audience: “Boooo!”

College: “we will craft a bill that forces police investigation of rape claims”

Audience: “Boooo!”

College: “Hmmm. Police investigation for some. Miniature American flags for others!”

GIF

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Jemima00Allie Jones
11/16/15 10:49am
I find the narrative a bit strange. Obviously the bill came out to try and stop future massive lawsuits from occurring, given the recent events with Rolling Stone and the high profile accusations and subsequent recants at other major universities. I can’t really see a situation in which I would not want to report an illegal act like that, so what exactly is the issue with saying that Universities cannot unilaterally expel students prior to preliminary investigations and further findings?
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  ad infinitumJemima00
  11/16/15 1:25pm
  If you can’t see a situation in which you wouldn’t want to report being raped, you have no idea what happens to rape victims when they attempt to report their rapes. Many rape victims who try to get justice through the legal system describe the treatment they receive from the police and the DA’s office (when it even gets that far, which is exceedingly rare) as equally if not more traumatizing than the rape itself.
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negdcomAllie Jones
11/16/15 10:16am
Can someone please explain to me what exactly is the proof that colleges currently need? I watch way too much law and order and it seems like there doesn’t need to be that much proof in order for the colleges to suspend or expel someone.Probably a better question is what is the higher level of proof that this new bill would require the colleges to have?
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  jroberts548negdcom
  11/16/15 10:25am
  Colleges only use the “preponderance of evidence” standard, meaning that there’s a better than 50/50 chance that the accused committed the crime. It’s the same standard used in civil lawsuits. The Fair Campus Act allows colleges to use a higher standard, like clear and convincing evidence or beyond a reasonable doubt, but it doesn’t set a new standard.
  
  The consequences of getting kicked out of college for rape are pretty serious, so I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with a higher standard of proof.
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  IskaralPustnegdcom
  11/16/15 10:33am
  While some colleges previously used a “clear and convincing evidence” standard for proving sexual assault, an informal “Dear Colleague” letter issued by the Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights, pursuant to its authority as an interpreter of Title IX, called for the use of the lower, “preponderance of the evidence” standard (the usual standard in civil cases, with some exceptions). The Fair Campus Act, in part, seeks to reverse the effect of the Dear Colleague Letter, considered by some to be an act of administrative overreach (since the use of such an informal procedure made the OCR’s action pretty much unreviewable).
  
  The Fair Campus Act also adds certain procedural requirements, allows parties to be represented by attorneys and examine witnesses, bans individuals from serving in multiple roles (such as an investigator serving as an adjudicator) and provides for disclosure of exculpatory or inculpatory evidence possessed by universities.
  
  I don’t really agree with the reversal of the OCR’s evidence standard, but at least this bill is a huge step up from making police reporting a mandatory prerequisite for a sexual misconduct complaint.
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Michael GeierAllie Jones
11/16/15 10:41am
I apologize if I’m being naive, but why wouldn’t the victim report the assault to the police anyway? It would certainly help a person’s case to have it documented with the proper authorities, including a medical exam (if possible).

“Oh he/she/it was a nice enough person, I don’t want them to have this hang over their head, but I just don’t want to look at them across the quad every day.” == bullshit. Educational institutions should be required to investigate and document, in parallel with law enforcement, any report of sexual misconduct. Campus cops are not equipped to manage this, and school administration does not want the bad PR.
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  LetsgobowlingMichael Geier
  11/16/15 10:51am
  1. Because the police probably won’t believe you.
  
  2. Because your peers won’t believe you.
  
  3. Because people treat victims like skit.
  
  4. Because it’s hard to balance assisting a felony rape investigation with... you know... attending college full-time?
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  childrenofthebroccoliMichael Geier
  11/16/15 11:11am
  Because the police are notoriously bad at handling rape cases, very few rapists actually ever see the inside of a jail cell anyway, and the whole process takes years and forces you to go over the assault in excruciating detail multiple times. It’s about protecting themselves, not protecting their rapist.
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