Kinja reply list

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benjaminalloverAllie Jones
11/12/15 3:05pm
What folks should understand is that this isn’t a choice between the school investigating OR the police investigating. Clearly, in an ideal world, victims would report the crime to both. The problem is that going to the police only results in a conviction a fraction of the time, and it takes YEARS. So what about the victims who don’t have enough evidence, and what about the remainder of every victim’s academic career? Denying support without a conviction is tantamount to passing the buck and doing nothing.
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  Hip Brooklyn Stereotypebenjaminallover
  11/12/15 3:08pm
  Thank you, BA.
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  schrodingersrapbenjaminallover
  11/12/15 3:09pm
  “. So what about the victims who don’t have enough evidence”
  
  So we don’t need evidence to convict? This whole thing is a slippery slope.
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Kant stand itAllie Jones
11/12/15 2:56pm
Holy shit. The fact that we even have to discuss this makes me physically sick.

As someone who was raped (at an Ivy League fraternity no less) before the days of social media and online resources, it astonishes me that nothing has changed, and I ache for every person who is left to deal with the failures of the system.

And yes, I was obviously the one punished for my rape by being ostracized and dismissed thanks to administration. But don't worry, that frat brother made it out in 6 years and likely has a cushy job somewhere, while years later I still deal with the pain. Justice!
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  optimus_rhymeKant stand it
  11/12/15 4:42pm
  Yeah thats exactly why we need this bill....
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  Snarkasticoptimus_rhyme
  11/12/15 5:06pm
  It would seem the bill would leave perpetrators unpunished (even at the University level) if the victim does not want to pursue a criminal investigation. It is definitely the victim’s right not to pursue charges, but if the university KNOWS about a rapist, then they should fucking do something regardless. That seems to be what Alpha Phi is talking about. Or am I completely misreading the above article?
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chitowngurlAllie Jones
11/12/15 2:49pm
Awww...I’m not the biggest cheerleader for my sorority or the greek system in general- it has issues- but this legit made me proud to be an A Phi. AOE!
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  Hip Brooklyn Stereotypechitowngurl
  11/12/15 2:51pm
  You should be proud now!
  
  Finally, something out of the Greek system that doesn’t make me roll my eyes and then subsequently weep for humanity.
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  Snail-Mail-BrideHip Brooklyn Stereotype
  11/12/15 3:09pm
  “We accept any social consequences that may be implied by others as we stand beside our sisters and support them if they choose to report the crime.
  
  We believe our sisters who are survivors should have choices in how, when and to whom they go to for support or to report the crime.”
  
  Progress. Good for them, honestly. No one is going to report a crime if they are fully aware that they will not be provided the help/justice they seek, or are entitled to by law.
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Vitamin VAllie Jones
11/12/15 2:55pm
So we don’t want rape to be handled by the police? We want it in the hands of the bumbling bureaucracy that is the campus police? I thought that was the status quo and not working. What am I missing?
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  punishablebylifeVitamin V
  11/12/15 3:01pm
  Yeah, can someone explain why this is a bad idea? The universities seem completely inept in addressing this, and even though the police aren’t much better, they certainly have more authority than the campus kangaroo court. I’m decidedly anti-Greek, but I don’t understand what the drawback of this bill would be.
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  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzVitamin V
  11/12/15 3:22pm
  The status quo is that the victim chooses for herself where to report the incident and where to pursue justice. She can decide who is best trained to help her.
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Alex CAllie Jones
11/12/15 7:42pm
Just, food for thought, what happens when an accused rapist is punished, then the police (people actually trained to) investigate, find out the allegation doesn’t hold up, or, it does go to trial and the accused is acquitted? But now, you’re right it does take years, but it’s now years later and someone has had their live severely disrupted if not ruined for a crime they didn’t commit. Justice does take a while, but that’s the price you pay for living in a free society with due process. I don’t care what private schools do. It’s none of my business. But public schools have an obligation to uphold the law, be it due process chess, free speech, whatever. All that preponderance of evidence standards will do is make some young man very wealthy at the expense of some state school that expelled him for a crime that he did not commit beyond a reasonable doubt.
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  SatanicWafflesAlex C
  11/12/15 9:05pm
  It means that the accused is going to sue the living b’jesus out of the school, the accuser, the accuser’s “witnesses”, etc. It is rumoured that Duke paided $20 million to EACH of the three men accused in the Duke Lacrosse Rape Fustercluck, although the lawyer says it was less than that.
  
  $30-60 million could buy a lot of resources for the school, including a massive amount of assistance for victims of sexual assault. Instead, the three innocent victims who got railroaded got moderately wealthy, and their lawyers got richer.
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  Fleet Admiral JoshAlex C
  11/13/15 9:44am
  what happens when an accused rapist is punished, then the police (people actually trained to) investigate, find out the allegation doesn’t hold up, or, it does go to trial and the accused is acquitted?
  
  I would say depends. Declining to prosecute or getting an acquittal just means that a prosecutor or a jury thinks there was reasonable doubt (or, just as likely, they think the girl was a slut and deserved it).
  
  As far as I’m aware, universities don’t necessarily have that same burden of proof to take action (it probably likely depends on the school).
  
  Now if police came out and found pretty good evidence that the report was fabricated and not that they just don’t think they have enough evidence, that’s another story.
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Kaye Syrah SyrahAllie Jones
11/12/15 3:41pm
I feel like I’m falling through the looking glass, here.

I get it that women don’t like to report, for good reason. Let’s work on those reasons, maybe, instead of letting a bunch of civilians investigate serious allegations and then creating an extra-legal kangaroo court to try people in?
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  ad infinitumKaye Syrah Syrah
  11/12/15 5:21pm
  We already let “a bunch of civilians investigate serious allegations” and determine campus-based punishment for criminal offenses. If a college or university has evidence that one of its students, say, attacked a trans person, it will act to punish that student accordingly, whether or not the victim presses charges, and independent of any police investigation. If it has evidence that one of its students is selling drugs, it doesn’t say, “Well, we can’t do anything until the police have completely their investigation.” It kicks that student the fuck out of school.
  
  What this bill does is insist that colleges and universities treat sexual assault as different than every other major crime committed by a student. If a school has video of a student violently attacking someone in a nonsexual manner, it can and will mete out consequences up to and including expulsion, whether the victim wants to file a police report or not. If it has video of a student violently sexually attacking someone, and that victim doesn’t want to put him or herself through the hell that is attempting to report sexual assault, the school can’t so much as remove the student from housing, let alone expel said student. It doesn’t matter how much evidence the school has that the student is guilty. It doesn’t matter if the student tattoos, “Yes, I raped that bitch, and I’d do it again!” on his chest. If the victim doesn’t want to involve the police, there’s absolutely nothing the school can do.
  
  And yes, absolutely, we need to work on the reasons sexual assault victims choose not to report. But those reasons still exist, and saying that colleges and universities are not allowed to treat sexual assault the way they treat other criminal matters really isn’t the way to fix them.
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BogartCatAllie Jones
11/12/15 8:03pm
To the people squawking about the “what about the women who don’t have enough evidence?” saying if there isn’t enough evidence, then the college shouldn’t be able to convict.

A college is never able to convict, because they can’t send you to prison. The worst they can do find you guilty and expel you.

When you go there, you agree to abide by their codes of conduct and give them the right to enforce them as they see fit.

That is how it works. End of story. Shut up.
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JayMoAllie Jones
11/12/15 3:10pm
I love when these awful bills are given names that are basically threats for people to vote against. The “Don’t Murder Puppies Act” that reduces the capital gains tax should be hitting the Senate any day now.
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  RobNYCJayMo
  11/12/15 3:54pm
  See most of the legislation Bush pushed through.
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HexpieAllie Jones
11/12/15 3:47pm
Good to see the MRA idiots on their burners in full force thanks to Facebook traffic? WTF Gawker, fix your kinja.

The fucking top comments are always troll-MRA now.
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Champagne of BeersAllie Jones
11/12/15 3:23pm
Awesome! Along those lines, I think the Catholic Church should be the only ones to investigate priests who molest boys.
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  SrynersonChampagne of Beers
  11/12/15 3:31pm
  Uh, no. “Along those lines” would be a law prohibiting the Catholic Church from investigating priests who molest boys unless the boy first makes a complaint to police.
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