Kinja reply list

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HypnoCatJay Hathaway
11/09/15 3:40pm
This blows. Campus assaults are such a widespread, and serious issue, and this only serves to distract from what should be constant pressure on universities and the Greek system to take it all much more seriously, do some real investigations, and hold hard-line zero-tolerance policies for their chapters.
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  Demon!HypnoCat
  11/09/15 3:45pm
  It hurts even more because this was all “by the playbook” which has been floating about in theory for awhile.
  
  This is why there is pushback against the idea that taking anyone’s word at face value for something so serious is an affront to our entire society. Facts must be verified. And there are so many stories she could have written that didn’t rely on everything being an unverified fact.
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  10" Rubber BilboHypnoCat
  11/09/15 3:57pm
  *do some real investigations....hold hard-line zero-tolerance policies for their chapters.*
  
  Aren’t these two ideas sort of in tension with each other? Most universities which take it upon themselves to investigate sexual assault as a matter of their concern under Title IX* do so under a ‘trial’ rubric that is way friendlier to accusers than is a regular court proceeding. No confrontation of accusers, no cross-examination of witnesses, no presentation of evidence, no presumption of innocence, no right to speedy ‘trial’, no automatic right to counsel, no right of appeal, etc.
  
  If universities are investigating sexual assaults under these rules-of-engagement and not coming up with anything then maybe the problem isn’t that they aren’t trying hard enough.
  
  *Which, it’s worth pointing out, wasn’t really conceived of as a law having anything to do with sexual assault. Something a libertarian pro bono law firm is probably researching in a back room right this very minute....
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MichaelJay Hathaway
11/09/15 3:44pm
The resulting report didn’t “turn up a number of red flags” - they determined it was complete bullshit. Which is what a jury will find. Rolling Stone will soon be owned by the bros at Phi Kappa Psi, a testimonial to the excesses of political correctness.
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  RobNYCMichael
  11/09/15 4:03pm
  No they won’t. It’ll get settled for a smaller amount.
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  asdfasdfasdfasdffRobNYC
  11/09/15 4:30pm
  How much money do you think a paper publication without a major online presence actually has?
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Jesus H ChristJay Hathaway
11/09/15 3:37pm
Shame on Rolling Stone. There’s enough real rape (that’s being ignored) to write about. Why publish a story that any smart editor would have known not to? It hurts the credibility of a good cause, and needlessly, as there are plenty of instances they could have written about and not had these kind of issues...
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  ad infinitumJesus H Christ
  11/09/15 5:19pm
  Especially when “Jackie” requested that her story not be used before publication, and Erdely refused to remove it. She wanted a “dramatic” story, and she threw her journalistic ethics out the window to get it. Beyond the damage done to the named frat, she inflicted untold harm on rape victims, who already had a hard enough time being treated as credible, for god knows how many decades to come.
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Deeply Moral NihilistJay Hathaway
11/09/15 3:36pm
I look at this like a bogus speeding ticket. Yeah, I might not have been speeding this time, but there were thousands of other times when I was and didn't get caught.
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  Demon!Deeply Moral Nihilist
  11/09/15 3:37pm
  That’s how a Fascist thinks about law.
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  WorfWWorfingtonDeeply Moral Nihilist
  11/09/15 3:38pm
  Yeah, we have no idea how many other bullshit stories Sabrina wrote
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Demon!Jay Hathaway
11/09/15 3:38pm
This was almost entirely fiction... passed as fact. Enabled by this idea that we shouldn’t verify because it hurts victims too much.
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  IdindunuffinDemon!
  11/09/15 3:40pm
  And Gawker Media.
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Not_an_industry_shillJay Hathaway
11/09/15 3:43pm
Most people now discredit the accounts of Jackie’s horrific ordeal, the details of which were documented in Sabrina Erdely’s article, “A Rape on Campus”.

As an alumnus of Phi Kappa Psi at UVA, I can tell you absolutely that these events were NOT fabricated.

I pledged Phi Psi back in the spring of 2006. I remember the events from this night clearly, as if they happened yesterday.

My pledge brothers and I arrived to the fraternity house to participate in one of the final pledge activities of the semester. We were also looking forward to the small party that we were having at the house that same night. We were all sitting in one of the fraternity brother’s rooms, awaiting instruction from our pledge master. When he arrived, he laid out the plans for us.

“Alright vag-wipes, here’s what you’re doing tonight,” he said (pledges at Phi Psi are referred to as ‘vag-wipes’ while the initiated brothers are ‘dude-bros’). “In a few minutes one of our dude-bros will be bringing a random girl into this room. She thinks she’s on a date. As soon as she enters, you’re to jump her, hold her down, and take turns forcibly having sex with her. The activity finishes when all of you finish.”

No one said anything. I was trying to understand what I had just heard.

“You want us to gang rape her?” I asked, in disbelief.

“That’s right vag-wipe, we want you to gang rape her”.

I was stunned. I mean, one year ago I was a normal high school kid looking forward to graduation. Now, I’m pledging a fraternity and being told that I need to participate in a premeditated felony sexual assault as part of an initiation ritual. It seemed surreal.

“And afterwards, what, do we kill her and bury the body in the basement?” I asked, incredulously.

“Nope, we just kick her out. And you’re all one step closer to being dude-bros,” my pledge master responded.

This sounded nuts. I knew there was no way that I could go through with this. I tried talking some sense into him.

“Um, she’ll go straight to the police”, I said. “We’re talking about committing a horrifically violent crime here. They’ll take her statement and send her to the hospital for rape analysis. Our DNA will almost certainly be found on her. Even if its not, she’ll be able to ID the brother that brings her here, possibly some of us as well. Her friends will corroborate her whereabouts. Witnesses at this party will confirm that she was here. They may see her enter the room. Hell, they might hear what goes on! After she leaves, she’ll be a hysterical mess, people will see that too! The police will do an investigation, they’ll take witness statements from everyone. They’ll come here and interrogate all of us! There’s no way that we can get away with this, we’ll probably spend the rest of our lives in prison!”

“Don’t be a vag-wipe, vag-wipe,” my pledge master told us. “She won’t go to the police, she’ll know that they won’t believe her. Even if she does go to the police, they won’t do anything. We’re rich and white, they’re in our pockets. She can’t go to the university either, for that matter. They’ll bury it, they won’t want rape incidents black-marking their prestigious institution. Look, every single brother in this house for dozens of years has done this. Every one. That means a girl has been gang-raped twice a year dating back decades. Not one time have we been caught. Not once.”

That didn’t seem logical, but he did have a point. The house was still there, no one had been caught yet.

“Well what if she goes to the media?” I asked. The Duke Lacrosse media explosion was in mushroom cloud status during this time. “We don’t have them in our pockets. They’d eat this story up! This would make international headlines! ‘Fraternity of Serial Gang Rapists Run Rampant’ it would read. It would make bigger waves than Duke Lacrosse! Even if we never went to prison, we’d be crucified by public opinion. Our lives would still be ruined! Oh God, I’d have to explain this to my family and friends! To my mother! I can’t even think about it!”

Again, my pledge master just looked at me with contempt. “Listen very carefully vag-wipe,” he said. “She won’t go the media. You know why? If she did, we’d never allow her or any of her friends inside our parties ever again. None of the frats would. She’d be the girl that cried rape. What do you think will be more important to her after this is done? Bringing justice to the fraternity full of gang-rape conspirators who just ruined her life, or being able to party at frats for the next four years? Duh! Fuckin pledges....”

This made no sense, but again, the fact that the house had still never been caught spoke volumes. But I still knew that there was no way I could go through with it.

“I can’t do it,” I said. “I’m not a criminal, I’m just a normal dude! I’ve never committed a crime in my life and you’re talking about doing something so heinous and terrible, I’m having a hard time even mentally processing the full extent of it! This will destroy this girl’s life! She’ll be affected by this in a very serious way until the day she dies! I wouldn’t be able to live with myself afterwards! I’m not a fuckin rapist! In fact, if you held a gun to my head and gave me a choice between committing this deplorable crime or death, I’d say ‘pull the trigger, I’d rather die!’”

Then he said something that I couldn’t argue with.

“Vag-wipe. If you don’t do this, you’ll never be a dude-bro. Do you, or do you not, want to be a dude-bro?”.

I couldn’t argue with that. On the one hand, I would be committing an unspeakable crime that was guaranteed to ruin the life of an innocent girl, and potentially ruin all of our lives if caught. One the other had, I really, really, really wanted to be a dude-bro.

I made my choice.

As we waited for the girl to arrive, I was still quite nervous. But it turned out that over half of my pledge brothers were already experienced rapists. One of them was already in double digits on the rape count. Who’d a thunk it? They calmed me down and gave me some good rape pointers. Our pledge master also assured us that he’d be there to give us some good rape coaching during the process.

The gang rape itself happened pretty much exactly as described in Erdely’s article, but with one exception: knowing full well that we were about to commit a violet sexual assault, we had the wherewithal to move all furniture to the back of the room. I mean, leaving a glass table in the middle of the room before committing a pre-mediated violent gang rape? That’s just stupid. And dangerous!

So now, after all this time, our criminal empire of serial gang rape conspirators has finally been exposed, due to the amazing, award winning journalism of Sabrina Erdely. And of course, poor brave Jackie, the first of our victims to ever have the courage to step forward. Kudos to the both of you!

Sabrina Erdely, if you’re reading this, I have a message for you: Since you never did contact any of the fraternity members to get their side of this story, I am now giving you that opportunity. I hereby officially grant you permission to publish the above account in any follow-up reporting that you may be involved with on this subject. My only request, though, is that you do not contact any other member of the fraternity, as I fear they may retaliate. Needless to say, I trust that this arrangement will not be a problem.

Good day and God speed to you all!

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  LuisGNot_an_industry_shill
  11/09/15 3:56pm
  I appreciate the effort, but that is a lot of words for a comment.
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  iGatsbyNot_an_industry_shill
  11/09/15 4:16pm
  This source is reliable enough to get published in the rolling stone. Get to it reporters! Gogogo
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reasonmethisJay Hathaway
11/09/15 4:12pm
It actually boggles my mind that Erdely not only still has her job, but wasn’t even punished with loss of pay or suspension. Rolling Stone is a farce.
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  madameboreasonmethis
  11/09/15 4:36pm
  Once again. For the hundredth time. Erdeley is a contributing writer. She did not and does not have a “job” with RS.
  
  Yes they should remove her from the masthead but to do so might be to admit guilt and thus cause.
  
  The ME, Dana, has resigned.
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  reasonmethismadamebo
  11/09/15 4:51pm
  I stand corrected. Either way my final comment remains the same: Rolling Stone is a farce.
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HypnoCatJay Hathaway
11/09/15 4:14pm
Man, the MRA trolls are strong in this thread....
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  99Telep☺dpr☹blemsHypnoCat
  11/09/15 5:58pm
  So far I am not seeing a lot of MRA trolls thus far. I am seeing people who are genuinely concerned about the fact that the shoddy journalism concerning this incident hurts actual rape victims and makes it that much easier for real rapists to go unpunished.
  
  I am no defender of fraternities. I think they have proven themselves to generally be an awful institution. But I do not disparage them one bit for this lawsuit.
  
  People wanted to burn that frat house to the ground and the accusations were entirely false.
  
  I don’t support the Greek system but witch hunts are much, much worse.
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MarkRavingMadJay Hathaway
11/09/15 3:39pm
Good. Shoddy Journalistic ethics demand retribution.
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  WhatUp2MarkRavingMad
  11/09/15 4:58pm
  
  GIF
  
  Agree!! We need to fuck them over!!!
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outdated usernameJay Hathaway
11/09/15 3:34pm
The story has been redacted, yet the thousands of “this is disgusting and not surprising” Facebook posts from UVA alumni are alive and well.
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  amtoutdated username
  11/09/15 4:04pm
  No surprise there. There’s still people who refuse to buy Tommy Hilfiger clothing because of that stupid story from the 90’s that he went on Oprah and he said he didn’t want minorities wearing his clothing (despite the fact that he never went on Oprah, Oprah categorically denied the meeting ever happened and the Anti-Defamation League did an investigation to disprove this).
  
  Facts can be such a burden!
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  KMK90amt
  11/09/15 4:08pm
  Facts only get in the way of what people want to believe...
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