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    ReburnsABurningReturnsHillary Crosley Coker
    11/03/15 10:08am

    Hmmm ... Heroin?

    Yeesh. I dunno about that. The risk that heroin usage causes other people material harm is pretty damn high. Once you’re addicted it may no longer be a “choice” you can make without help, but the choice to use at first is for the most part yours.

    If we were ever to legalize a drug like heroin here in the states, I don’t think that insurance, or if we ever get there single payer, should have to cover treatment. Maybe we can provide some financing mechanisms or whatever, but how is it fair to those of us who have the good sense not to use a drug like heroin in the first place?

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      Morifarty's ringtoneReburnsABurningReturns
      11/03/15 10:11am

      They are not legalizing it, they are decriminalizing it. Which means addicts who are caught with it won’t fear jail time, which means that the focus can be more on health and rehab as opposed to imprisoning them.

      It’s not like you’re going to be able to go to your local headshop and pick up a nice bag of black tar heroin.

      And insurance should absolutely, 100% cover rehab. I’m very happy you’ve never used heroin. Have a cookie. But financially penalizing someone who most likely has no way of paying for rehab without assistance due to their addiction does nothing but perpetuate the problem and allow their addiction to continue and become more severe, which helps literally no one.

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      uiohdsfhioReburnsABurningReturns
      11/03/15 10:12am

      Heroin addicts remaining heroin addicts will cost you more in the long run.

      It’s not legalized anyway, it’s decriminalized. They simply wont be sent to jail for possession of heroin. That’s a good thing.

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    KendradicalHillary Crosley Coker
    11/03/15 10:55am

    “supervised injecting centers”

    Aka legalized crackhouses?? I’m ... pretty torn here. Yes, we want to cut down on transmission of HIV and other diseases spread by sharing dirty needles, but... I’m really not sure this is the way to do it. Heroin is no fucking joke, and I can’t see any reason to condone its use. Saying that almost makes me feel like those asshats who are against giving condoms to kids, saying that promotes them having sex, but still... I feel like this does kind of encourage the use of these incredibly dangerous, super harmful drugs. I’ve seen what heroin can do and, unlike “teen sex” (which, for the record, I don’t think is slightly fucking encouraged by giving teens access to birth control), it actually is a very, very terrible and nasty thing that destroys the lives of people it touches, and making it easier and legal for people to do just terrifies me.

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      helgaperezKendradical
      11/03/15 11:02am

      Statistics say that supervised injecting centers reduce diseases and can even reduce crime. They also give social workers a place to engage addicts, offering them a pathway back to sobriety. It is pretty counterintuitive, but they seem to work.

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      Queen of BithyniaKendradical
      11/03/15 11:22am

      Saying that almost makes me feel like those asshats who are against giving condoms to kids, saying that promotes them having sex, but still...

      It should make you feel that way, because you are engaged in the exact same line of reasoning, and that reasoning has the exact same negative consequences.

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    Morifarty's ringtoneHillary Crosley Coker
    11/03/15 10:04am

    Decriminalizing drugs is a very good thing.

    Keeping abortion illegal is a very bad thing.

    ETA: I don’t mean because I like to do drugs (which I do!) but actually because decriminalizing drugs allows people with addictions to seek help without fear, engage in less dangerous behaviors, and help curb over jailing for non violent petty crimes.

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      benjaminalloverMorifarty's ringtone
      11/03/15 10:06am

      If they can shift the focus of their model for approaching drugs from criminalization to community health and harm reduction strategies, perhaps they can eventually do the same vis a vis abortion?

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      Jurassic PorkerMorifarty's ringtone
      11/03/15 10:08am

      You are a good thing

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    she-raHillary Crosley Coker
    11/03/15 10:44am

    I kind of don’t like this title being all “abortion still illegal tho!!” - they’re not really connected issues. I mean it’s worth pointing out that Ireland still has shitty abortion laws, point that out whenever! But being all “oh so I can do all the drugs I want but try to make a choice about my uterus and noooo” like, that’s not really it.

    A lot of people are already in here clearing up the decriminalization vs legalization issue here, so I won’t do that, but just. This is a good thing for public health. Legal abortion would be too! They should get on that. Implying that there’s something inherently bad about decriminalizing drug use in order to prevent the spread of infectious diseases by being all “just a reminder, abortion still illegal!” sits way wrong with me.

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      RegalAlienshe-ra
      11/03/15 10:53am

      I consider them related as public health issues. Both decriminalization of drug use and safe and legal abortion are “icky” issues that don’t sit well with many (primarily conservative) people but ultimately keep people safer. It’s interesting that a country can get the political will together to decriminalize drugs (which is not a widely accepted strategy on an international scale) but not to legalize abortion (which is).

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      she-raRegalAlien
      11/03/15 11:12am

      Yeah, I see that. And the comparison is kind of interesting in a, “I wonder what political stuff happened to make this the motion that went forward first, since they are both so taboo” kind of way.

      They’re in the same sphere of issues... but, and I am tired and having trouble articulating this how I want to, I am also just feeling like mentioning that abortion is still illegal this way is teetering kind of close to pitting them against each other. Both are worthwhile causes, but saying it like “just a reminder that abortion is still illegal though” makes it seem like we’re saying “and yet over here this more important and morally better thing is being ignored” and I just don’t see the issue that way. And even if it’s not how it was meant in the title, that’s definitely the way the comments have been going. It bugs me.

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    QuanYinHillary Crosley Coker
    11/03/15 11:00am

    I get the public health/policy reasoning behind this, but it’s still something I struggle with. It’s not technically illegal to use or be under the influence of drugs (except when operating a vehicle or similar circumstances) in the U.S. (although “public intoxication” is a misdemeanor in some jurisdictions, it’s not typically something that a person is charged with on a stand-alone basis; usually an additional charge when someone is picked up for some other criminal activity). Drug-related crimes are generally limited to possession (of the drug itself or of paraphernalia in some jurisdictions), trafficking, and manufacturing. The general idea is to avoid penalizing the end-user in favor of penalizing those that facilitate drug use. Consider how frequently users who are picked up for simple possession are able to have their charges dropped in exchange for providing information about their supplier. I guess what I’m trying to get at is that I don’t necessarily want for drug users to be classified as criminals, and I’d rather see drug policy that focuses on the “demand” side of addiction, but in the absence of that, dealing with the supply side is better than nothing? I acknowledge that I am conflicted, which stems from my experience as a healthcare provider and as a person who knows/loves people who have addictions. I wish there were clearer answers.

    ETA: Abortion should be legal. Full stop.

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      FreshlyShavenQuanYin
      11/03/15 11:56am

      “but in the absence of that, dealing with the supply side is better than nothing?”

      No, it’s not. Supply-side drug policy does little to make drugs unavailable but it does a lot to encourage violence in the drug trade.

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      QuanYinFreshlyShaven
      11/03/15 12:57pm

      That’s why I ended that sentence with a question mark.

      I really don’t know what the answer to any of this is. I do know that punishing users does nothing to deter their use. I know that there is a desperate lack of treatment beds for people who want treatment, and that hospitals are often hamstrug to admit users and spin them dry whether they want to detox or not, and then there is nowehere to send them for follow up (and even if there is, they aren’t ready to go), so we just end up spending huge amounts of money treating patients who don’t want treatment while being unable to treat those who do. I know that residential treatment centers (the type of “retreat/spa” facilities that the producers of Intervention are so fond of) don’t do anything to ensure long-term recovery (even when people can actually afford them) because as soon as an addict returns to his/her real life they are confronted with the same circumstances they were in before they spent 90 days doing Yoga and having daily massages and being totally insulated from the real world. So, do we just legalize everything, step back and let the chips fall where they may? Do we legalize everything, step back and make treatment (community-based, evidence-based, effective treatment that doesn’t bankrupt a family desperate to have their loved one get better) available to those who want it? Or do we continue with the completely absurd approach of handing out Narcan to everyone so they can save an addict’s life (and then what...)? I don’t know. I really don’t. All I do know is that I’m tired of the approach of just slapping a Band-Aid over a gaping wound and calling it a day.

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    bagoflettersHillary Crosley Coker
    11/03/15 10:03am

    Wait, didn’t they accidentally do that a few years back? Now its for realsies?

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      candy_pantsbagofletters
      11/03/15 10:37am

      Ha yes and it was hilarious. For something like 24 hours only a mistake in some legislation meant there was a loophole where all Class A drugs were legal.

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    KeevaSHillary Crosley Coker
    11/03/15 10:05am

    Ireland: Feel free to use these drugs, even heroin, because it is your body. Except for you lasses. Your vaginas and uteruses are the property of the state. Feel free shoot up heroin, though, if it makes you feel better about being a state controlled birthing machine.

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      Morifarty's ringtoneKeevaS
      11/03/15 10:09am

      You guys, just because abortion being illegal is bad doesn’t mean decriminalizing drugs is also bad.

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      KeevaSMorifarty's ringtone
      11/03/15 10:13am

      There is nothing wrong with decriminalizing most drugs. In fact, it is a very good idea. But that does not negate the simple truth that the Irish continue to see women as not equal in all matters, in complete accordance with their 2000 year old book of myths and legends.

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    candy_pantsHillary Crosley Coker
    11/03/15 10:26am

    Aodhan O'Riordain is technically Minister for State at the Department for New Communities, Culture and Equality but yes the National Drug Strategy falls under his remit. However, he is just proposing the decriminalisation for now. There's a general election expected next year so everyone is floating their platforms. Like a potential referendum to repeal the 8th amendment (the first step in legalising abortion), nothing is set in stone yet. I think at the moment the best the minister can hope for is that the Labour party to get behind it as an official "position". I think the reality of it is years and years away.

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      AngelaInDetroitHillary Crosley Coker
      11/03/15 10:17am

      Admittedly I am not an Irish citizen but this doesnt seem well thought out.

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        uiohdsfhioAngelaInDetroit
        11/03/15 10:20am

        How so? Portugal did it years ago and it has been very successful.

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        candy_pantsAngelaInDetroit
        11/03/15 10:38am

        It's not. It's literally just a minister speaking at a conference saying he hopes for decriminalisation in the future. There's no strategy and no party is behind this politically yet.

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      mekkiHillary Crosley Coker
      11/03/15 10:13am

      Are you comparing pot use to abortions, Coker? Because that’s weird...

      I am all for women’s reproductive rights. (Being a woman, myself, it affects me.) But still...the two aren’t really comparative.

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        Kenny and the Llamasmekki
        11/03/15 10:36am
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