Discussion
  • Read More
    MerijeekJay Hathaway
    10/13/15 1:26pm

    Charged with what? Loving freedom too much?

    Thanks, Obama!

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Rat FinkMerijeek
      10/13/15 1:32pm

      Let me fix that for you: Thanks, Obama! James Madison!

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      kamla deviMerijeek
      10/13/15 1:38pm

      The only thing that this freedoming, patriotic American could have done better is had more guns. More guns is always the solution!

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    Armageddon T. ThunderbirdJay Hathaway
    10/13/15 1:28pm

    I bet that never happens in the action-movie fantasies that convinced her she needs to be the one packing heat at the shopping center.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Johnny ChundersArmageddon T. Thunderbird
      10/13/15 1:30pm

      She did shoot out a tire so that’s pretty impressive I guess.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      BaggyTrousers3Armageddon T. Thunderbird
      10/13/15 1:33pm

      Well, she hadn’t passed shooting-a-gun-out-of-someone’s-hand or hitting-the-assailant-as-they’re-standing-behind-someone-holding-a-knife-to-their-throat, so this was as good as she could do.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    youjustkeepthinkingbutchJay Hathaway
    10/13/15 1:29pm

    I recently had jury duty and we were warned repeatedly that we were not to visit the site where the crime had taken place, not to investigate it on our own, not to attempt to make contact with the defendant or anyone else to ‘figure out’ what had really happened. I was hysterical with laughter at the thought that some one of us would try to NCIS all on our own.

    Now that I have seen this story—I see why they had to keep repeating themselves.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Murry Changyoujustkeepthinkingbutch
      10/13/15 1:51pm

      Yeah that’s not some stupid formality, people actually go out and try to detective things themselves. Stupid, stupid people.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      youjustkeepthinkingbutchMurry Chang
      10/13/15 2:02pm

      I was horrified to realize that is true. Good Lord, how much Columbo have they been watching?

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    RenRenJay Hathaway
    10/13/15 1:31pm

    This is where good, reasonable gun owners just face-palm. No one was shooting at her. She didn’t lose anything by those guys stealing that stuff. Her life was not in danger. They weren’t about to run over anyone.

    The NRA has sold us to the idea that we need guns because these “heroic” instances are happening every day, all around us. They want a mom with three kids to have an assault rifle because a horde of people might break into her house. (What kind of a neighborhood is she living in?) And they want us to carry around guns with tons of ammo because bad guys are all around. Meanwhile, unencumbered by lawsuits over negligence, or data from epidemiological studies, the gun manufacturers make money hand over fist.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      ╰(　´◔　ω　◔ `)╯< Woke and BokeRenRen
      10/13/15 1:39pm

      And this is a CHL holder, the cream of the crop of “responsible” gun owners.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      TheOldCapRenRen
      10/13/15 2:28pm

      Basically. Their gun company lobbyists want us to think we’re all potential action stars when no, we’re not. Bullets ricochet, people shoot inaccurately when excited, and they don’t often have the best decisionmaking skills under pressure, either. If members of the military spend months upon months upon months training themselves to do more than shoot - but to know when to shoot and they still make mistakes, how much more for the average person?

      On the real, a CHL holder should probably carry basic, basic insurance and have something like 20 hours of training - combo of classroom, range, and scenario training. Regular re-licensing, too. Proficient, responsible.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    structengrJay Hathaway
    10/13/15 1:39pm

    If you remember your Concealed handgun training(mine from Texas), use of force from a civilian is only acceptable if serious bodily harm is imminent to ones self or another. The qualification being that the other must give consent for protection unless the act is completely heinous (actively being murdered or raped, etc.) or the person is unable to give consent, which then is implied.

    “when the actor reasonably fears imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another”

    Robbery (stealing off your person) may qualify but petty theft from a store does not qualify use of force by a concealed carry person.

    Anyone know Michigan’s state laws on this?

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Jay Hathawaystructengr
      10/13/15 1:48pm

      Michigan’s state laws don’t specify, but I’ll repost this comment on the case law I could find. This is from People v Hampton, 194 Mich App 593; 487 NW2d 843 (1992):

      A private citizen may use deadly force to stop a fleeing felon under the following circumstances: (1) the evidence must show that the felony actually occurred, (2) the fleeing suspect against whom the force was used must be the person who committed the felony, and (3) the use of deadly force must have been “necessary” to ensure the apprehension of the felon.

      Here’s the crazy history of “fleeing-felon” in Michigan, according to the Court of Appeals in that case:

      Recently, the Michigan Supreme Court addressed the issue of the use of deadly force in situations involving a fleeing felon. In People v Couch, 436 Mich. 414, 421; 461 N.W.2d 683 (1990), the Court held that the common law regarding a private person’s use of deadly force to apprehend felons was adopted by the Legislature through its fifty-year acquiescence following the decision in People v Gonsler, 251 Mich. 443; 232 NW 365 (1930). Moreover, the Supreme Court, responding to Tennessee v Garner,471 U.S. 1; 105 S.Ct. 1694; 85 L Ed 2d 1 (1985), ruled that private citizens, unlike peace officers acting under the color of state law, are not subject to the Fourth Amendment restraints that Garner imposed. Finally, the Court reversed the Court of Appeals ruling that would permit a private citizen to use deadly force only if he reasonably believed that the felon posed a threat of serious harm to himself or others.

      I’m not a lawyer, but from what I could determine, this was apparently in use as a defense as recently as 2007.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      ARP2structengr
      10/13/15 1:51pm

      1. CCW training in many states can be as easy as a 30 minute online video. In VA it was a written, open book test (where the answers were given) and 20 minutes of hands-on experience.

      2. Michigan is roughly equivalent.
      http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(u3tzujz3ocb…/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-780-951

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    OpenWheelJay Hathaway
    10/13/15 1:38pm

    Concealed carry certification courses specifically warn against this kind of thing. Unless there is a threat to a life, use of a firearm is unwarranted.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Armageddon T. ThunderbirdOpenWheel
      10/13/15 1:49pm

      Golly, It’s almost as if sitting through a slideshow at the learning annex may not be enough.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      ARP2OpenWheel
      10/13/15 2:45pm

      How would they know that? Many states don’t require training at all (e.g. Texas). Some only require a minimal amount of online education (not training).

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    Dave Jay Hathaway
    10/13/15 1:31pm

    “If this is proven, I find it very disturbing that someone would take out their gun in a busy parking lot and shoot at the tires of a passing car,” Oakland County prosecutor Jessica Cooper said in a statement

    Hello? Have you lived in the USA very long? Welcome to our country, we hope you have a kevlar vest.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      TheRealFrying_slothDave
      10/13/15 1:33pm

      Bitch this is America, we always aim for the head.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    SlickWillieJay Hathaway
    10/13/15 1:32pm

    “It would have been much more helpful for her to take out her cellphone and shoot pictures of the shoplifter’s license plate.”

    [ Takes photo of license plate, pulls out gun, throws cell phone in air, shoots it. ]

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      ReburnsABurningReturnsJay Hathaway
      10/13/15 1:36pm

      This is what happens when you have grown adults carrying guns in retail parking lots, presumably while sober.

      What does my state’s legislature think is going to happen when you give them to a bunch of young, dumb UT Austin college students who have a penchant for partying, petty theft and stupid disagreements?

      Reply
      <
      • Read More
        Vanguard KnightJay Hathaway
        10/13/15 1:29pm

        Oh thank god.

        While some of my contemporaries like to imagine how awesome a world with vigilantes running around would be, I want to really drive home how awful it would be in reality.

        There is a reason Enforcer, Judge and Executioner is seperated.

        Ask African-Americans who were murdered throughout the country in the years between the civil war and 1981.

        Reply
        <