Discussion
  • Read More
    Socks Are My Favorite ClothesStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 9:33pm

    Antisemitism.... Islamophobia.... this kinda sounds familiar, yeah?

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      XofSocks Are My Favorite Clothes
      9/22/15 9:46pm

      It’s like a family reunion. But without the devil’d eggs and feigned civility.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      Socks Are My Favorite ClothesXof
      9/22/15 9:49pm

      Deviled eggs are SATAN.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    WoeIsNighTheEndIsMeStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 9:38pm

    Two sides to this argument. One could congratulate France on actively going after bigotry. The other could condemn France for it’s lack of free speech.

    I think I’m going the free speech route. People should be allowed to say hateful shit, but the consequences should be public humiliation and shaming, not judicial. Yeah, sometimes you want to smack bigots upside the head with a frying pan, but then I remember that they would do the same to me if they could.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      LimaBeansWoeIsNighTheEndIsMe
      9/22/15 10:56pm

      France has free speech. America got its sense of free speech FROM France. France also has criminal hate speech prohibitions. America has limits on free speech as well.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      WoeIsNighTheEndIsMeLimaBeans
      9/22/15 10:58pm

      “The free communication of thoughts and of opinions is one of the most precious rights of man: any citizen thus may speak, write, print freely, save [if it is necessary] to respond to the abuse of this liberty, in the cases determined by the law.”

      Basically, you have free speech in France, unless they decide you don’t.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    Mr.Noir, Liberal Hippie KingStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 9:49pm

    Great! Can we bring Donald Trump up on charges in this country now?

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Socks Are My Favorite ClothesMr.Noir, Liberal Hippie King
      9/22/15 9:51pm

      You should be banished to the pits of hellfire for this picture.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      aranxa1Mr.Noir, Liberal Hippie King
      9/22/15 10:26pm

      How I wish I could unsee that.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    XofStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 9:43pm

    “It is easier to prosecute those who denounce the illegal behavior of fundamentalist...than to prosecute the fundamentalism behaving illegally,”

    Well......that’s all you need to know about where she’s coming from.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Socks Are My Favorite ClothesXof
      9/22/15 9:45pm

      Xo, I haven’t even been drinking tonight and I feel like I need a translator to help me out with that statement of hers.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      Mr.Noir, Liberal Hippie KingSocks Are My Favorite Clothes
      9/22/15 9:51pm

      All she’s really saying is “I’m a HORRIBLE person”.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    Masshole JamesStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 9:40pm

    What happens if she becomes President of France? Her party swept the local elections and isn’t she way ahead in the polls for the national vote?

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      MelissamacheteMasshole James
      9/22/15 10:14pm

      So she’s France’s Donald Trump? Great.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      Masshole JamesMelissamachete
      9/22/15 10:17pm

      Multiple parties are in contention there so she probably has a better shot at winning than Trump does.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    CortanaStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 9:32pm

    If we tried the same, the Republican Party would all vanish behind bars.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      WoeIsNighTheEndIsMeCortana
      9/22/15 9:34pm

      Yeah, but that darn constitution.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      SqarrCortana
      9/22/15 9:39pm

      If we tried the same, they’d incite another civil war rather than let themselves get jailed.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    Ginger Is A ConstructStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 10:03pm
    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      TheOASiscomingGinger Is A Construct
      9/23/15 12:37am

      Oui, tres TRES bon:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews...

      Tldr? Le Pen works for Putin. Like Berlusconi, she has heaped praise on the Russian strongman and is a huge supporter of the annexation of the Crimea. Her party is also widely suspected to have been funded by the Kremlin to the tune of 40 million euros. If anyone thinks the FN will save France from the “homophobic infidels”, they are sadly mistaken.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    DererumnaturaStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 11:04pm

    Oh dear Cat, I can only imagine the ethnocentric responses we’ll get from liberals and conservatives who think they know France. Yep, indeed; from the comments, I have been proven correct.

    Aside from the fact the original quote was translated thanks to Google, et je cite :

    On est plus prompt à poursuivre ceux qui dénoncent les comportements illégaux des fondamentalistes qu’à poursuivre les fondamentalistes qui ont des comportements illégaux.

    which means:

    [In France], we are quicker to prosecute those who denounce the illegal conduct of fundamentalists than to prosecute the fundamentalists whose behavior is illegal.

    The reason why Le Pen’s statement does not translate well into English is because there is an underlying barb (which I have noted in italics): she’s juxtaposing ‘illegal actions’ (des comportements illégaux) with ‘illegal behavior’ (qui ont des comportements illégaux). Le comportement in French has two meanings: actions and behavior, as in possessing inherent characteristics. For example, one can say in French “le comportement physiologique,” or physiological behavior as witnessed by a physician. So, how does one move? Are there any issues with the joints, and such. Le comportement is a loaded word because it implies a judgment from an external observer and refers to a set of psychoanalytical, physiological, and psychological actions inherent to a person or class of people (or animals in biology). Obviously, Le Pen is using weasel words to essentially say that the very presence of fundamentalists is illegal in France. But the real question is, of course, who are the fundamentalists?

    Now, one must understand how the separation of church and state works in France (la laïcité). Unlike in America where the First Amendment expresses a sort of agnosticism with respect to religion in the public (governmental) sphere, France actually forbids the open demonstration of religion in governmental spaces like schools and governmental institutions. That is why the French Ministry of Education banned the hijab (along with kippas and crucifixes) from schools back in 2010/2011: it was too conspicuous, which is the comportement to which Le Pen is referring. Religious groups can, however, have their own schools, provided that they have a curriculum of essentials (French, Math, Sciences, etc.) that correspond to the brevet or bac (school exit exams). The reason why Le Pen is unfortunately gaining in popularity is because the French view Islamists (and Muslims in general) as rejecting laïcité, meaning that they aren’t keeping their religion private. This is nothing new; the French hold the same views about Jews (cf. Napoléon’s comments about the ‘Jewish nation’ in France and Voltaire’s anti-Semitism).

    That said, Le Pen does use Algerian and Islamist interchangeably (not in this particular interview, but has in the past), so the racism is definitely there, which is why she is facing trial, though I doubt anything will come of it. The comedian Dieudonné, a rabid anti-Semite, has been brought to court several times. Libel and criminal racism are mainly a political statement forcing her to respond to her Islamophobia (which is very French). She is not Donald Trump in that she does not espouse the same liberal (laissez-faire) philosophy as the UMP (like Republicans). She is more akin to Mike Huckabee or David Duke (without the Christian fundamentalism) than to Trump. She is actually more dangerous than Trump because she is far more intelligent than he is and knows how to twist words, as you have noted in the quote above.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      Fred4576Dererumnatura
      9/23/15 3:29am

      I agree with everything you’ve said here and would simply add that the French notion of secularism never acknowledges how Catholic so many of its institutions are. There are SO DAMN MANY Catholic holidays celebrated here. Sunday is considered a sacred day, yes because of limiting work hours to protect time off, but to hear politicians like Paris mayor Anne Hidalgo discuss it, it has mystical importance. Jews and Muslims don’t care about Sunday. And so on and so on. Overt symbols of religion... how convenient that for even the most orthodox Catholic there’s no outfit associated like a kippeh or hijab or what have you. This shit drives me crazy about France. They look at the word multiculturalism as if it were covered in shit stains.

      Reply
      <
    • Read More
      mrrpmrrpmrrpmrrpDererumnatura
      9/23/15 6:41am

      Thank you for explaining a bunch of relevant things about France (and French/translation) that I definitely didn’t know and wouldn’t have learned otherwise.

      Reply
      <
  • Read More
    LéonStassa Edwards
    9/22/15 9:40pm

    There are a lot of things to hate Hitler and the Nazi party for. I submit we add to the list that their existence has given idiots the world over something ridiculous and extreme to accuse everyone and everything they don’t like of being.

    Like. Do extreme xenophobic conservatives really not see that their attitude toward the world is much more aligned with the Nazi’s than anyone else in the Western hemisphere? Ding-dongs, all of them.

    Reply
    <
    • Read More
      KendradicalStassa Edwards
      9/23/15 4:16pm

      I’m a little flabbergasted that “incitement to discrimination over people’s religious beliefs” is an actual charge. Seems like something that somebody could easily be charged with for stating their opinions, racist as they may be, which quite frankly sounds like it impedes their right to free speech. Unless that’s not a constitutional-type right they have in France, which I honestly have no clue about...

      Reply
      <