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ReburnsABurningReturnsJennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 12:06pm
The weird juxtaposition here is how upper middle class Christians choose to live. I live in a fairly wealthy upper middle class suburb of Dallas, where the churches are huge, nice and well attended. When I drive by those churches on Sunday morning, typically looking for a hangover cure from McDonald’s for breakfast, and I see parking lots filled with cars that probably have an average retail value of $50,000 , and I see a church building with millions of dollars worth of architectural fluff built into them, and I think about the fact that 15 miles south of us inside of Dallas there are families struggling to keep the lights on and feed their families, I can only chuckle at how hilariously mistaken about what the Bible means most of the people entering that church building are.

These are not people giving in a way that requires them to make meaningful sacrifices, which is probably the simplest way to boil down what Jesus had to say about how much Christians should give. There is simply no way to justify the lifestyles many upper middle class and rich Christians live when you try to live by the Bible. Statements in the Bible about how generous you should be with your money and time are not vague, there is no exegesis of the text that can interpret those statements as anything other than what they plainly state, because the original Greek in those texts is undisputed.
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  Ladybug2ReburnsABurningReturns
  8/25/15 12:20pm
  Your first mistake is thinking the “faithful” read the entire Bible. Your second mistake is thinking that people actually want to be Christ-like as opposed to wanting everyone else to do the faith stuff. All these folks want are gawd’s blessings without all the suffering, real charity, love, peace and stuff.
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  ReburnsABurningReturnsLadybug2
  8/25/15 12:32pm
  Okay, take a seat.
  
  What would make you think that the “faithful” need to read the entire Bible to get the message that I said? They don’t. Indeed, most pastors in these churches routinely give messages that touch directly on the verses that support what I said in my comment, and indeed that probably directly support it.
  
  The issue is that these pastors, because most of them are cowards more interested in maintaining a comfortable lifestyle than they are in challenging their parishioners, don’t actually issue direct challenges based on the verses they read to their parishioners. They give general “Give generously to others” type messages without actually pointing out how comfortable and posh the lives that most of their parishioners lead are.
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TheUnderwriterJennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 12:13pm
True Creflo Dollar story:

I live in ATL. Used to date a girl from Trinidad & Tobago back in 2000. She and her mom were big believers in church. I was just starting to get comfortable with my complete rejection of what I and a lot of southern African-Americans are pretty much brainwashed into believing. But still, the GF was pretty sexy and I was all young, angsty and bored, so I said fuck it and accepted her request that we go to Creflo’s church, World Changers, together.

We got there, and just as the rumors go, there were ATMs in the lobby. We walked in and took seats in the huge auditorium-style sanctuary. Someone was giving announcements (family stuff, news, sick and shut in, that kinda stuff), and the crowd was pretty jovial. Generally polite, sometimes actual guffawing laughs when the emcee would crack a nice, clean, Christian joke. I remember him even laughing at one of his own jokes along with the crowd, then as his laughter faded (“HAHAHAA... HA... HAhahaha... Ahaha. Aha.... Ahhh....”), he said, in a whispery, reverent voice, “And now... (insert serious sigh here), it’s time for... The Tithes. And The Offering.”

Soon as he whispered the last word, the lights began to dim and it became super-dark in the sanctuary. From the ceiling, not far from the pulpit, a HUGE screen quickly began to descend. It stopped, fully extended, and on came a video.

A middle-aged black woman began talking to the camera. She shared that, a few months ago, she lost her job. It was a pretty severe financial blow, as she takes care of other family members (assuming she was a grandmother or something) and has all sorts of bills and responsibilities. In a short amount of time she was dead broke, and didn’t know what she was gonna do. She needed money. At that moment, she prayed and asked God what to do.

She said God told her to go to Pastor Dollar and give him money.

The video cut to an interview with Creflo. Dressed impeccably (if you consider hella-tacky, needlessly shiny pinstriped suits to be good dressing), he told the camera that he was surprised when the lady came up to him and told him that God told her to give him money. He said the lady told him she didn’t have a job, and this was the last money she had, but that she had faith and knew that God had a plan, so if God said give Pastor Dollar the money, that’s what she was going to do, and that’s what she did. Creflo said she stuck her hand out and gave him and envelope with $1,000 or so dollars in it.

Creflo then said that he was not going to tell this woman what to do with the money, as God had already instructed her. He said this with the straightest, I-totally-believe-my-own-bullshit, face. He said he did what God wanted him to do and accepted the money. He did not say that this was The Tithes or The Offering—he just said he took the money. I remember that, and always thought it was a detail that was intentionally left unsaid.

The video then (apparently) cut to a month later. The lady was back at her home, but now she was smiling in a way that wasn’t so sad-ish. She was really happy! Why though? Oh, because she got A NEW JOB. She had doubled—no, tripled—her old salary, and was now making more than six figures. She had A NEW CAR. She was more than financially stable—she was making more money than she’d ever before made in her life.

As the video ended, I remember her saying, “And I know it’s all because I did what The Lord told me to do—give Pastor Dollar that gift of money. God is good.”

The screen went dark, and the lights slowly un-dimmed as the screen retracted back into the heavens of the sanctuary. When the lights were fully bright again, I realized that there were now ushers at the ends of every church pew, holding collection plates. They became passing them down the pews immediately. When it got to me, I held it and looked at how much cash was there. I wondered which one of the ushers would pounce on me and kick my unholy ass if I took a little something for my own personal ministry. I didn’t take anything, and didn’t want any of the money—I didn’t even want to look at it. The person who got the plate after me dropped in a few bucks, just as my ex-girlfriend and her mother did.

I’ll always remember how repulsed I was at what I’d seen. But I’ll always say that it was one of the most perfectly produced begs I’ve ever seen. The man is a financial predator and has no business even visiting a church, much less running one, but boy, he puts on a great show.

FINAL THOUGHT: It’s really amazing that after all this time, and all the obviousness, John Oliver may be the guy who makes people wake the fuck up about prosperity preachers.
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  cheerful_exgirlfriendTheUnderwriter
  8/25/15 12:22pm
  Jesus might have trouble overturning those ATMs but I’d like to think he’d try.
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  Kenhe Logincheerful_exgirlfriend
  8/25/15 12:34pm
  I think Jesus could do it for two reasons, one miracles, and two according to all artistic renderings of Jesus dude was ripped.
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kaysey17Jennifer C. Martin
8/26/15 5:13am
You’re from Cleveland, TN? My fam is from there - my grandfather was a bigwig in the COGOP. I’m a ‘heathen’ although my moms is still active in the church. Even with all the religious scandals that happen on an almost weekly basis, she still believes. ¯\_(シ)_/¯
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  Jennifer C. Martinkaysey17
  8/26/15 8:32am
  My grandparents were bigwigs in the regular CoG/Lee crowd. Hello!
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  kaysey17Jennifer C. Martin
  8/26/15 11:44am
  Hey...wait. Didn’t we have this convo before? Or is there another Gawkerite from Cleveland on here?
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DL ThurstonJennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 11:56am
What struck me about the Oliver segment was the one televangelist preaching “the bigger the seed, the bigger the harvest.” I mean...look, there’s the book that these guys are claiming to be preaching about, about this dude named Jesus. And among the things he is quoted as saying is...

The Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field; which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches.

Of course, that’s commie Bible Jesus, not Prosperity American Jesus that these guys are actually preaching. But its depressing that their theological message can fall apart from just remembering one little parable.

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  Pending ApprovalDL Thurston
  8/25/15 12:13pm
  can’t pick and choose buddy, jesus also said some really other wierd shit and lies.
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  goldwDL Thurston
  8/25/15 12:15pm
  And farmers know the size of a seed doesn’t matter, a large seed of corn/bean/wheat ect doesn’t grow any bigger than a small seed.
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Paul DimitrovJennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 11:49am
This essay alone should prompt a re-thinking of the tax exemptions churches enjoy.

By “re-thinking” I mean “immediate revokation.”

Perhaps also, churches should also come with warning labels like cigarettes? Something like, “Warning, this primitive belief system will seek to rob you of your money, make false promises, and generally make your life worse, rather than better.”
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  Smooth JAPaul Dimitrov
  8/25/15 12:12pm
  I agree that the tax exemption should go, but if you thought wanting to get people easier access to healthcare brought out the stupid, can you imagine the shit that would be said about the first political candidate that made this suggestion?
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  Paul DimitrovSmooth JA
  8/25/15 2:11pm
  Oh, it definitely won’t be happening for a long time. If ever.
  
  Conservatives would have a field day.
  
  Isn’t it interesting, however, that we immediately deduce that? That we know these heavily propagandized morons will immediately be riled up into such a froth that any change will be aborted?
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Dave Jennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 12:04pm
As the son and grandson of Baptist preachers who can turn on the slimy evangelist voice and possessing good hair I guess the REAL question is why I am NOT starting my own church. I mean LOOK AT MY HAIR! #praisejesus
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  Rodney Dangerfield's UnderpantsDave
  8/25/15 1:02pm
  My takeaway from this article is that I am quitting my job to become a televangelist. I have excellent teeth.
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  Jennifer C. MartinDave
  8/25/15 6:31pm
  We should do a compare/contrast to find out if televangelists or high-ranking scientologists are richer to see which route we’re going to take
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BadRabbitNoNoJennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 12:04pm
Robert Tilton is the worst. Of course, he is famous for Primetime Live having found tens of thousands of prayer requests outside the banks he used on 14 different occasions. The donations had been removed of course. But my favorite is him saying that he had plastic surgery because he had lain on piles of prayer requests for so long that chemicals from the ink got into his bloodstream and eyes, causing two mini-strokes and bags under his eyes. All you can do is laugh at him. And this is good for that:

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  CStallionBadRabbitNoNo
  8/25/15 12:30pm
  The worst? Yeah, he’s up there, but this schmuck is on his level too:
  
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  George BadRabbitNoNo
  8/25/15 12:34pm
  Tilton is fantastic, a real pioneer in prosperity gospel. About 10 years ago, I really got into his broadcasts that would show at midnight on some obscure UHF channel. Back then (I don’t know what he’s doing now), he’d gabble about “sowing your seed,” occasionally breaking into his version of “speaking in tongues” that sounded like a guttural smearing of Grecian Latin. Then he’d hold up his palms and exhort his viewers to place their hands on the television on top of his as they prayed together. All this, while he was obviously on heavy doses of speed. What a hoot!
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theUnBetrothedJennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 11:45am
Televangelists really aren’t different from any other religious folk - they’re just on TV.

It’s all snake oil, every bit.
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  CaiteeCruelletheUnBetrothed
  8/25/15 12:13pm
  Yep, Quakers, Unitarians, Martin Luther King, Jim Wallis, Sophie Scholl and her family, all of them were great proponents of the prosperity gospel and only in it to line their own pockets. Keep congratulating yourself on your wit and worldliness.
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Kenhe LoginJennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 12:08pm
There are two types of parsonage. In one type the church owns the parsonage, but the person who lives in the parsonage is pays income tax on the fair market rental value of the parsonage. This is also true of university presidents who live in university provided housing. The other type of parsonage is a parsonage allowance in which the church pays the minister for the expense of providing a home. The parsonage allowance value is subject to self-employment tax, but you only pay income tax on the amount that isn’t used to pay for a house. For income taxes you do get a double deduction of mortgage interest and property tax in that you deduct both in determining AGI, and on Schedule A for determining taxable income. Learn more (http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc41…)
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kingdom2000Jennifer C. Martin
8/25/15 10:31pm
Sadly preaching wealth as a sign of God’s love has been a fundamental part of all religions, but especially Christian/Catholicism since nearly its inception. All that has changed is everyone realized they don’t no longer have to hide the greed aspect anymore as those same “real Christians/Catholics” happily embrace it, applaud it, encourage it and truly and deeply believe that “greed is good” (despite being a sin). Its telling that its nearly 100% of those that believe this are also part of the dedicated Republican base.

This is made ironic by the fact that Jesus’ own words and actions have always been anti-corporate, anti-greed, anti-rich yet they use his name for the very opposite and all the “true believers” are either too ignorant or too desperate to catch the constant contradictions and hypocrisy (also a sin) that is a constant part of most ministries.
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