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    imtiredthatisall IS just like Gywneth PaltrowJudy Brown
    8/24/15 2:14pm

    While I am not even remotely Orthodox Jewish, my ethnic background has similar aspects that has always made me relate to these stories and events.

    It is a difficult thing to reconcile your life when you become an adult after growing up in an environment where your family and/or religion try to define you should be for you in advance. Rebelling can mean ostracism from a guaranteed “safe” place. Why leave when there are people there to support you and be there for you - people you grew up with and love? You already know them and what to expect.

    But when that support comes with the price of subverting yourself if who you are does not fit in with everyone else’s expectation of you, it’s like torture. Even the people who recognize the idiosyncrasies don’t know any other way to be and follow the rules because they just don’t know how else to live. There’s security in familiarity, despite the pain. At least you know a lot of other people feel the same way. And the rules are clear. If you just follow them you are accepted. Even if you’re pretending, so long as you put on that facade, you will be part of the group.

    I do not know any answers. I struggle with this myself. Standing on the edge. Trying to reconcile who I know myself to be with what I know my parents and extended family expect of me. While mostly just trying to shield my own children from what I experienced. I am still learning as I go. It is not easy.

    I do not blame people who cannot bear it any longer.

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      DeccaLeChatimtiredthatisall IS just like Gywneth Paltrow
      8/24/15 2:29pm

      This is why I really feel for the Duggar children, even, to some degree, Josh. There is security and certainty in an insular community, and when you haven’t been prepared for the outside world, when in fact you’ve been warned away from it and told that it’s evil, I can’t imagine how hard it is to step away from that. I don’t think most personalities are set up to rebel against conformity, really.

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      Dances with Peepsimtiredthatisall IS just like Gywneth Paltrow
      8/24/15 2:45pm

      I haven’t seen my parents in almost sixteen years. I haven’t spoken to them in over ten. It was the choice I had to make, but it’s not an easy one. I truly wish you the best.

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    decepticornJudy Brown
    8/24/15 1:50pm

    Anyone who commits suicide is OTD. Their being OTD probably caused them to commit suicide. Even if they didn’t appear to be OTD, they were surely OTD in their hearts.

    It’s like Scientology. “Suppressive persons.”

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      IndianaJoandecepticorn
      8/24/15 2:16pm

      Sorry, what is “OTD”?

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      EnderSpeaksIndianaJoan
      8/24/15 2:26pm

      Off The Derech: It means “not on the path”, orthodox religion being “the path”

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    911TootherJudy Brown
    8/24/15 2:12pm

    Just another story from the benefits of living today in a crazy 2500 year-old religion of Old Testament idiocy. Cue the fundamentalist Christians and Muslims to complete the pad a trois.

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      Frog911Toother
      8/24/15 7:21pm

      I think I should once again emphasize the part where the author says “But the strangers outside know nothing of the myriad other lives being lived inside the fortress. It’s hard to see the complexities of a distinct world through the smoke. We who come from within know of kindness and love, of charity and faith.”

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but you are one of those outsiders. And far be it from me to say that outsiders cannot understand or contribute, but you’re being disdainful of something that has survived, by your estimate, thousands of years. And all this without learning about what is at the heart of this religion.

      As with everything, we see the outliers and hear the tragedies. But by nature, we don’t see day to day life in such an insular community- and that day to day life is, by the author’s account and many others, full of wonder, and joy, and heartbreak, and just plain stuff, like any other. But we won’t see any of this without looking for it and making an effort.

      Religion isn’t the source of all good, nor is it the root of all evil. But ignorant hate, שנאת חינם, well, that’ll kill indescriminately.

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      911TootherFrog
      8/24/15 7:49pm

      “And far be it from me to say that outsiders cannot understand or contribute, but you’re being disdainful of something that has survived, by your estimate, thousands of years. And all this without learning about what is at the heart of this religion.”

      Cockroaches have survived for millions of years yet that doesn’t mean I can’t understand cockroaches, and I’m disdainful of cockroaches.

      As to this brand of Judaism, this mad-hatter group of uber-orthodox do not represent the majority of Jews. Even my friends in the Conservative and Reform temples and congregations believe this bunch are closer to the nuttiness of the Westboro Baptist Church than Judaism in the 21st century.

      The Jews I know are decent, family-oriented, hard-working, socially inclined to be helpful to others, and have taught me much about their religion. Not this group of misogynist, backwards looking, rabble-rousing, hate-filled sect.

      But crazy is crazy, whether the name is Phelps or Goldberger.

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    PsonicPsunspotJudy Brown
    8/24/15 1:19pm

    When they jump off the balcony of a hotel in Borough Park or the rooftop bar of Manhattan, it’s with a loud cry: you can’t catch me anymore.

    This sentence made my breath catch in my throat. Thank you so much for sharing.

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      SuchBullshitPsonicPsunspot
      8/24/15 1:45pm

      I agree. Thank you for speaking out and sharing your story. I just read Unorthodox and plan to find your books, as well.

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    911TootherJudy Brown
    8/24/15 3:26pm

    Nope — there’s nothing crazy about a religion that makes you wear a plastic body bag in an airplane to protect you from women. Nothing at all.

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      Friedneckbones911Toother
      8/24/15 4:29pm

      However, in this case it was apparently not about a woman. It was believed the man is a Kohein, a religious descendant of the priests of ancient Israel, who are banned from flying over cemeteries.

      Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2...

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      911TootherFriedneckbones
      8/24/15 5:47pm

      So it’s not a woman, it’s a cemetery? And a plastic bag stops dead cooties?

      No tin-foil kippahs available?

      Yes, it all makes sense now.

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    FrancoisJudy Brown
    8/24/15 1:26pm

    It is shocking when we finally realize that everything we know, have learned, have experienced, all our memories will be gone when we die. This personal insult makes it easy to accept the iron age, superstitious nonsense that the established religions offer, because they promise an out. The ultra orthodox of any faith have always seemed to me to be the most unhappy, discouraged people I have been with; the siege mentality and secrecy can really wear you down.

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      Dances with PeepsFrancois
      8/24/15 2:50pm

      See, I disagree. Knowing that you don’t have to worry about what happens after death has given me, and many others, a freedom from fear of failure.

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      FrancoisDances with Peeps
      8/24/15 4:48pm

      Me too! For most religious people though, that is a bridge too far.

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    JokerSmokerMidnightTokerJudy Brown
    8/24/15 2:11pm

    I’ve been obsessed with Ultra-Orthadox Judaism for so long. I live upstate so as a kid, I would always see them at the mall and I would always try to go up to the kids and talk to them because it was just how I was. I am even more fascinated now because I know how secretive they are, and they really don’t allow you in their community at all. There are a few really interesting books from runaways that I’ve read that I’ve enjoyed, and they really show how depressing life is in their society.

    I just finished Leah Vincent’s book, Cut Me Loose. It was so sad. I couldn’t imagine being 17 and your parents basically cutting you off and looking at you as if you’re a plague.

    Shulem Deen’s All Who Go Do Not Return was also heartbreaking. I thought about it for days after I finished. I could not imagine how hard it must be to leave a community and lose your family entirely...

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      justachickJudy Brown
      8/24/15 2:29pm

      As someone who is not part of that world, but is part of a somewhat similar belief system, my heart goes out to these people.

      I very much appreciate the author’s point of view. There are many beautiful aspects to this community and others like it. There is a complexity between not being in denial about things like the suicides and the ostracism while still acknowledging things like her brother’s story...

      More people telling these stories both good and sad will help people suffering now. The more the stories are told the more people will know they are not alone. Even if it saves one life, it’s well worth it.

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        squidcityJudy Brown
        8/24/15 3:15pm

        This is wonderful and yet I’m so nervous.

        I’m an ultra-Orthodox woman. Though I dislike the label, I think it most accurately describes my level and stripe of observance.

        That being said, I’m pleased as punch that my community is producing new writers and new thinkers both within and out of the social parameters we’ve set.

        But I just get so nervous. When one writes about America- secular America, the America we all know and love, there’s a freedom to write about sadness and anger. That freedom, I think, comes from the abundance of stories already written. You can write about a sad childhood in Wisconsin and no one will presume to think that all Wisconsin or American childhoods are sad, because there are literary sources of happy childhoods as well.

        When it comes to the Orthodox community, the very scarcity of storytelling makes each new book or new article more definitive. And I cringe each time- not because sadness doesn’t exist in my world and CERTAINLY not because I wish abuse to remain undocumented, but because this becomes the sole narrative.

        I haven’t read This Is Not a Love Story yet, and I hope I’ll love it. But I wish my personal experience- full of heartbreak and sadness but also joy and freedom and a dirty sense of humor and a grateful and overarching love of G-d- was in the news, too. Because I need something I can point to when I read comments full of fury and spittle, something that can say what I want to say all the time. Life is a crapshoot of sadness and happiness, but I’ve never felt less empowered to make choices than anyone else.

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          EnderSpeakssquidcity
          8/24/15 3:53pm

          בעסער א ווייטיק אין הארץ אידער א כארפּע אין פּנים

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          squidcityEnderSpeaks
          8/24/15 4:00pm

          Do you know how bad my Yiddish is and how much a pain in my heart that is? AND a disgrace on my face.

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        Karma Chameleon Does Domino DancingJudy Brown
        8/24/15 2:21pm

        I am not religious now, but I used to be. It was a double edged sword - sometimes the cloister effect was suffocating and sometimes it just felt like the most supportive community ever. I left because of religious belief (my lack), but I don’t feel (in general) that religious communities are any more restrictive than any minority community struggling to maintain an identity.

        I read Hush and appreciate the difficulty in shedding light on issues we all have while attempting to not paint your people as circus freaks for the “others” to gawk at.

        For you who slam religious communities - remember, mainstream society isn’t far off from many of these reactions. It isn’t about religion- it is about insular communities that can’t/ won’t see their own problems & that is common.

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