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    CaptOtterAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 12:30pm

    “Among other things, it stipulates that all parties have access to every piece of evidence, and that they be permitted to hire an attorney.”

    Is this really such a bad thing?

    Regardless of whether there is merit to any of the rest of the bill (I think requiring victims to opt in via correspondence within in order to have law enforcement investigate their case is asinine and dumb), I tend to think that allowing the accused to retain counsel, and allowing all parties to be appraised of the evidence regarding the allegedly criminal incident, are all necessary for any such process to be fair.

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      goldenraeCaptOtter
      7/30/15 12:40pm

      They are currently able to do both under Title IX. The attorney just may not be able to act like anything more than a potted plant.

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      CaptOttergoldenrae
      7/30/15 1:06pm

      The attorney just may not be able to act like anything more than a potted plant.

      Being allowed to retain counsel and have them present, but not allowing them to do anything at all essentially makes the retention of counsel meaningless—it’s effectively the same as not having an attorney present (other than to act as a witness—which anyone can do). For the ability to retain counsel to be meaningful, they must actually be allowed to counsel.

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    MooseyDeersAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 10:34am

    Is the part requiring schools to report to police terrible? I mean, yes, I guess it is. I’ve known very few people who have been raped who have had the energy and mental fortitude at the time of the rape to go forward with a claim (including one woman who was drugged and raped by a serial pretty boy rapist who the police knew about, but all of the victims had refused to go forward in pressing charges) and even including myself against my boss at work. I guess I just wish someone had forced me into coming forward now that I’m a decade and a half past the attack and angry as hell about it.

    I guess I was thinking that school’s have such a terrible track record at investigating and at actually doing anything about campus rapes. But then so do police. Ugh. I’ll be over here curled up in my fuck off ball.

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      andsmokeit is mrs tormund giantsbaneMooseyDeers
      7/30/15 10:36am

      this.

      the school’s suck at dealing with this

      law enforcement sucks a dealing with this

      lose-lose-lose all around

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      JenMooseyDeers
      7/30/15 10:38am

      I was kind of thinking the same thing because schools don't seem to be doing so well, but the way its proposed sounds sketchy as hell.

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    Joseph FinnAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 10:32am

    As two separate stories:

    1. Eat a bag of dicks, Matt Salmon.

    2. I’m inclined to think that Elias, Hadford and Fowler are probably right to sue Rolling Stone; that story was a disaster.

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      dliwyletinifedniJoseph Finn
      7/30/15 10:42am

      Re: #2, thanks a lot Joseph for supporting throwing rape victims and their advocates under the bus. Who gives a f’ if these three frat boys “suffered emotional distress.” The impact this has on raising the profile of victims is invaluable, and if we have to fight a threat of lawsuit for just standing up for our rights than many women will be silenced. You go eat a bag of dicks

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      CaptOtterJoseph Finn
      7/30/15 12:36pm

      I’m inclined to think that Elias, Hadford and Fowler are probably right to sue Rolling Stone; that story was a disaster.

      The story was legitimately defamatory of the fraternity in question—but “emotional distress” is a bit of a stretch.

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    SipowitzAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 10:43am

    *clicks “Show Pending”*

    Anna, need an aspirin? Or a shot of whiskey?

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      Anna MerlanSipowitz
      7/30/15 10:51am

      why can’t I flush the whole thing like a toilet, is my question

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      SipowitzAnna Merlan
      7/30/15 10:54am

      Flushing won’t help because that’s where they come from:

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    SpringSprungAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 10:29am

    Arizona Republican Congressman Matt Salmon introduced a bill Wednesday designed to protect students accused of rape on campus, to change the way on-campus safety hearings are conducted, and to prevent Greek organizations from being forced to go co-ed.

    Seriously Anna. I know you’re just reporting the story, I don’t think you could’ve gotten one more asshole into that sentence. Well, maybe if you added Cosby and a lion murderer.

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      PumpkinSpiesSpringSprung
      7/30/15 1:43pm

      I was already nodding after “Arizona” and “Republican.” It just kept getting more and more depressing.

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    "Because Old Hobbits Die Hard" was the punchline, JuliaAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 12:03pm

    I have never understood collegiate tribunals and “college law”. It’s like asking a summer camp to hold the investigation into a murder, just because it happened during the three-legged race. You can wait for all the camp counselors to fetch hilariously-oversized magnifying glasses and start playing detective, or you can get lawyers and medical professionals and law enforcement personnel to actually solve the crime.

    I cannot possibly see the downside to forcing colleges to contact actual legal and medical experts to follow-up on sexual assault claims.

    When it comes to campus judiciary proceedings, most of the language in the act is designed to protect the accused, giving them, as it says, “ a meaningful opportunity to admit or contest the allegation.” Among other things, it stipulates that all parties have access to every piece of evidence, and that they be permitted to hire an attorney.

    This is how law works and it generally helps people. It’s not feminist in any way, shape, or form to expect that social capital and the power of an accusation should—in and of themselves—create justice. The “meaningful opportunity to contest allegations” is how modern society prevents lynchings and mob justice. That righteous indignation we feel when we see someone shot in the street before getting a fair trial is cut from the same cloth. It ultimately demands we should at least give the legal system a try, even if it’s sometimes shitty and doesn’t work.

    If you rely on collegiate kangaroo courts that engage in he-said-she-said funsies regarding horrific crimes, you wind up with journalistically-shoddy outrage farms that ultimately make it harder for rape victims to get justice. For each high profile false allegation case, there are tens of thousands of rape victims who are too intimidated by the spectacle and ineptitude of the process to come forward.

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      goldenrae"Because Old Hobbits Die Hard" was the punchline, Julia
      7/30/15 12:40pm

      It’s because it’s not a court.

      Plain and simply rape is against the student code of conduct and in order to remove a student from campus they need due process. Same thing goes for academic dishonesty, murder, petty theft, drugs, etc.

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      "Because Old Hobbits Die Hard" was the punchline, Juliagoldenrae
      7/30/15 1:48pm

      Telling rape victims to get help from their school, rather than legal and medical professionals, is creating more problems than it solves, though. It minimizes rape and it encourages rape victims to seek academic, rather than legal, solutions.

      Being a murderer is a no-go for most jobs. However, very few employers have set up tribunals of legally-unskilled academics to solve murders. Rather, they call the police when a murder has happened. If I get raped or murdered, I don’t want a school or a taxi service or a bakery to bring my assailant to justice. I’d prefer that the legal system does it.

      If the school decides that murder is against its “academic code of conduct” in addition to being a crime in literally every nation, then the felon who killed me can also be expelled or whatever. My killer’s expulsion doesn’t even resemble justice. It is a political action on the part of the school, to save face.

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    BekabyAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 10:56am

    There’s a frat PAC?

    Sigh. Of course there’s a frat pac.

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      AnglKatBekaby
      7/30/15 11:36am

      Why? What do they lobby for? I was genuinely surprised when I read this.

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      BekabyAnglKat
      7/30/15 11:38am

      I don’t know. I guess you gotta fight for your right to party?

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    PuppyMonsterAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 10:35am

    They also are trying to get people to stop using the word “victim” and instead call them “accusers” -__-

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      welllahdeedahPuppyMonster
      7/30/15 12:07pm

      Are they going to lobby for big, scarlet ‘A’s too? Jesus Murphy.

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    sallybannerAnna Merlan
    7/30/15 10:36am

    oh good, no one is more disenfranchised than white frat boys

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      InternetDoctorMDAnna Merlan
      7/30/15 1:01pm

      “Won’t somebody think of the accused rapist’s lives?”

      “Yeah, I’ll think about them when I’m done burying them in a shallow grave”

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