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youjustkeepthinkingbutchJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 2:05pm
I was in East Tennessee this past week, visiting my extremely Catholic in-laws, and the sheer preponderance of what they call “Protestant” churches really surprised me. It seemed like almost anyone could open a church, which is a mind-blowing concept to someone like me who grew up with the hierarchical precision of Catholicism.

I did wonder how that colors anyone’s thinking on religion. I think Catholics have been raised to think you do it the Church’s way or else. The concept of making up your own religion or set of beliefs is completely foreign to me. (I hope that doesn’t sound too ignorant.) Of course, now I am a cheerful atheist, so go figure.
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  Jennifer C. Martinyoujustkeepthinkingbutch
  7/17/15 2:08pm
  And here I keep thinking of converting to Catholicism because of the pope! I don’t know if I could handle it though. Such a 180 from Pentecostalism. Maybe I’ll ease into it with United Church of Christ, then Episcopalian...
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  Mikey (builds Beige)Jennifer C. Martin
  7/17/15 2:13pm
  Have you considered Eastern Orthodoxy?
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delic8geniusJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 4:13pm
I found your anonyminity comment interesting, particularly because they feared judgement and hurting their families. I don’t fear judgement anymore, but I’m always censoring myself around my very conservative parents for fear of hurting them. In spite (because?) of their certainty, there’s something really really fragile about fundamentalist folks. Even though I think lots of their ideas are just WHACK, I still want my parents to be happy, so I just don’t go there. I just focus on things that we DO have in common, like the weather.
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  Jennifer C. Martindelic8genius
  7/17/15 4:20pm
  That’s how “Sasha Von Brandt” felt. She doesn’t want her mother to google and see that she’s an atheist. She seethes during prayer and dislikes religious conversation. But she bites her tongue and still gets along and spends time with her family. I mean, my sister is my best friend and she’s a libertarian; I’m bordering on socialism. We’re a bit more argumentative but we have so much more in common than not.
  
  Religion might be trickier than politics because I assume it’s incredibly difficult if you genuinely believe your child, a person you love more than anyone, is going to hell if they’re an atheist. I don’t know how you get around that. Even though my views on hell are extremely post-modern (like Rob Bell in “Love Wins”) I am a mom and I get incredibly depressed thinking about it, and it’s a concept I don’t even believe in, you know?
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  delic8geniusJennifer C. Martin
  7/17/15 4:33pm
  Religion might be trickier than politics because I assume it’s incredibly difficult if you genuinely believe your child, a person you love more than anyone, is going to hell if they’re an atheist.
  
  Precisely. I also get some weird whiplash whenever I hear the ideas I grew up with coming out of their mouths in the present day. I remember exactly what it felt like to believe so earnestly in what they still believe. I used to entertain those old ideas, that old nostalgia, out of doubt and fear, but I don’t anymore. I remember how it felt, and perhaps that makes me slightly more compassionate to conservative worldviews, but strictly as ideas, I have no use at all for them anymore.
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MirimaNelsJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 2:00pm
I also grew up in a fundamentalist cult. I left with zero help form any family and now it's been over 25 years. I have PTSD but I am well, successful, and sane. Not a day goes by that I don't feel angry that a child can still be subjected to this mental and physical abuse without the state stepping in (I don't call it spiritual abuse, since that is not an accurate description of a trauma). If you're reading this and you want to leave a religion like this, do not delay. You can survive. You can build a new life. The pain of losing the family you have known hurts but it will not kill you. You can be happy, and you know their threats and the fear you have of a punishing God is not real, it's just a ploy to keep you from leaving. If you have already left and you're suffering, it's not your fault, and please, talk to a professional about it. This shit is not easy.
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  ArkMirimaNels
  7/17/15 2:35pm
  As far as I’m concerned, raising children in a fundamentalist household IS child abuse, and the state should be stepping in to prevent children from being brainwashed into regressive, backwards, misogynistic belief systems. We may think our version of the Taliban is better because they don’t execute their daughters for dishonoring the family, but that’s only because American fundies prefer to bully their children into killing themselves.
  
  I would honestly see CPS and the National Guard removing fundamentalists’ kids at gunpoint as a good use of my tax dollars. If you want to give up on everything life has to offer and resign yourself to being some man’s breeding sow, fine, but you need to make that decision as an adult, not be brainwashed into it as a child by controlling, bullying parents and “faith leaders”.
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  dhuffordMirimaNels
  7/17/15 2:50pm
  It’s not easy, that last sentence is so true. I sometimes feel the anger but I try to ignore it. I hope you get past your issues. Don’t give up.
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RickeyHendersonForeverJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 2:10pm
I attended Harding Academy in Memphis, TN from 7th-10th grade. They are the main feeder school for Harding University, the first school mentioned in the article. I can assure you it is more of a cult than anything else. In fact, the reason I didn’t attend after 10th grade was b/c a friend of mine and I went to our respective parents and told them we absolutely would not go back to that school anymore. Here’s why:

Growing up my dad wanted me to have good influence in my life so he had me attend a Presbyterian church with my grandparents. I never truly believed in any of the religious stuff, but that’s neither here nor there. It was something I had to do, so I did it.

By the time I had attended Harding for a year I was 13. At the beginning of that 8th grade year I got called into the Dean of Students (basically the disciplinarian of the school) office. In the room it was me, my Bible teacher, and the Dean, Mr. Goddard (who, despite the religious stuff, was actually an OK dude). They were very blunt. “We see on your application to the school from last year your parents put that you are Presbyterian......why is that?” Why is that? I thought? My answer, essentially, was “I don’t even want to go, I go b/c my dad makes me go with my gparents. I’m not even into all this Jesus stuff, really.” They spent the next half hour trying to convince me that the Church of Christ is the way to go, but I wasn’t having any of it, b/c that’s fucking creepy.

Well, that’s when the trouble started. I wasn’t the most well-behaved kid, admittedly, but I wasn’t one who I would say acted out, either. Just the general talking in class, etc. After I made them well aware I wouldn’t be joining them in their Church of Christ-ness, I started getting in such disproportionate trouble to my actual wrongdoings it was more than obvious what had happened. Then I learned the same thing happened to my best friend, who is also not religious.

This is what the Church does. They try to hook you while you are old enough to understand what they are asking, but young enough, in their minds, to still be totally impressionable. It works an alarmingly high amount of times, and it only gets worse as they continue on to Harding University. I had more friends that went off to that school and came out so fundamental, and it was sad to have to cut ties with them. They always accused me of thinking I was better than them b/c I would always tell them, “Sorry, but I didn’t fall for their shit liek you did.” Just another sad way in which they are literally incapable of seeing the reality for what it is.

TL;DR - I have lived the Harding experience as mentioned in this article, and it was exactly as stated. It is a cult, and not a religion.

P.S. - I can also say this. My father, who was not going to church at the time, but considered himself holier-than-thou, used to beat the ever-living shit out of me. I haven’t spoken to him in 11+ years now, and as an example of why, this is how sick and twisted he was at the time - For my 12th birthday he literally presented me a padle he had my grandfather make to use on me whenever it was time for me to be punished. Not only that, but my grandfather drilled holes in the end of it to spell out the letters M.O.T., which stood for “moment of truth”
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  Caitlyn Jenner's ClitorisRickeyHendersonForever
  7/17/15 2:22pm
  What does this have to do with Geither?
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  Swedish Murder MachineRickeyHendersonForever
  7/17/15 2:24pm
  One of the key tactics of religions is to infect you with their nonsense before you are old enough to realize it is nonsense. That way it seems normative regardless of your adherence later in life.
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burnbabyburnTWOJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 1:55pm
Sorry Gawker, you made it clear where you stand on the impacts- for individuals, families and children- of being intrusive into the sexuality of certain people last night.

It’s over for you guys.
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  IlIllllIllIllIburnbabyburnTWO
  7/17/15 2:03pm
  Things may be getting worse for Gawker!
  
  http://gotnews.com/breaking-exclu…
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  notsomethingstructuralIlIllllIllIllI
  7/17/15 2:10pm
  Yeah great source for comment on Gawker’s “internet-allged libel”, a blog written by a guy who’s ALSO suing Gawker for libel.
  
  A++++ journalism you should teach Jordan how to do his job. If you want to shit on Gawker at least come strong with facts from something other than known troll Chuck Johnson.
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Greyjoy and the salty cynicJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 4:14pm
I grew up in the SSPX that had been excommunicated. My life is still a emotional fucking mess 5 years after all the friends and family I had ever had shut their doors to me. I am stuck in a awful limbo with my younger siblings (12) and my mother’s love only extends as far as her religious beliefs. I have a wonderful husband, and some great in-laws, but it is so hard to put myself out there because I still fear and worry about being judged and not accepted. My parents did their best to punish and beat me down, and I didn’t see that even my friends only accepted me if I was like them. Homeschooling just made living under that worse.

I’m just sad and hurt.
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  Jennifer C. MartinGreyjoy and the salty cynic
  7/17/15 4:18pm
  I’m so, so sorry. I hope you glance at some of the resources in the last paragraph and see if you can find some peace.
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  AssFault on the Highway to HellGreyjoy and the salty cynic
  7/17/15 4:41pm
  I wish you could see how much you are not alone. I wish I could show you. Please check out the resources she posted. There are so many of us waiting to nod with you and say, hey, you’re not crazy, and it’s going to be okay, and you’re really truly cared about. (HUGS.)
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AlcoraidenJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 2:30pm
I grew up Pentecostal. The place I was in was feminist, but when I came out as bi to my parents my mom cried all the way home on the plane flight. My dad pestered me about it until I finally told him to shut up, we were never talking about this again, and he finally relented.

Really, what was the worst for me was my devastating fear that I was going to go to Hell. Not for any particular reason, but WHAT IF I DID. I nearly killed myself because I was so convinced I would live in fear for the rest of my life. To this day my family still doesn’t understand why it’s such a big deal to say that someone can be tortured for all eternity — to them, it’s just what happens to nonbelievers. I’m okay, they’re okay, and so they don’t care.

I don’t get it. I used to cry every night for my friends who I thought were forever damned. Did no one see just how SERIOUS this is? Eternal pain is something we can’t even imagine.

And yes, while I’d love to say social justice brought me to more liberal Christianity, it was this Hell thing. I can’t believe my friends are going to burn forever. I can’t. It doesn’t match up with the Jesus I read about.
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  Jennifer C. MartinAlcoraiden
  7/17/15 2:35pm
  You should read Rob Bell’s “Love Wins” about the hell thing. I can’t recommend it enough.
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  AlcoraidenJennifer C. Martin
  7/17/15 2:38pm
  I did read it. It helped a whole lot, and Rob Bell is great. :)
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Wishbone of ArcJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 2:08pm

This tweet has since been deleted.
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  Wishbone of ArcWishbone of Arc
  7/17/15 2:12pm
  The actor is James Franco.
  
  From the Huffington Post:
  
  The first of Lawson’s posts simply quoted a New York Post blind item that asked, “WHICH hunk in a summer movie is a violent, closeted homosexual? The heartthrob snuck into his ex’s apartment a few months ago and raped him so violently, the ex ended up in the hospital - and the actor paid him $500,000 to keep his mouth shut.” The Post item — which may or may not be baseless itself — offered no hints as to the identity of the alleged rapist and certainly mentioned no one by name.
  
  So how did Franco’s name get mixed up in all of this?
  A few days later, Gawker decided that the initial post was popular enough to spawn a franchise. They thought it would be fun (and offer more legal cover,) to let the readers decide who the rapist was—with a little nudging, of course. After a deeply half-hearted list of other “suspects,” Lawson concluded:
  And then there’s the compelling case of James Franco. Basically the rumor is that Franco dated the guy about two years ago, and still had a key to his house. Guy goes to an Oscars party, comes back and Franco is waiting for him and then awfulness goes down. He’s rumored to have been abusive towards an old girlfriend, also an actor, some five years ago.
  
  Shocking, then, that the next day they could round up reactions with a post titled, The People Have Spoken, and They Think James Franco is a Rapist. Mission accomplished, Gawker HQ!
  
  Gawker decided to revisit the “story” again over a month later. This time, the post was even accompanied by a photograph of Franco. Finally, it made the rather brazen claim, “that the original tip that prompted the Page Six blind item, about an actor who broke into his ex-boyfriend’s house an[d] sexually assaulted him, mentioned Franco specifically.”
  Once again, I repeat: the author has since admitted that this was all baseless. Gawker manufactured a story that accused someone of rape—not to mention other intimate partner abuse—apparently for clicks and giggles, then delivered it over four posts spaced more than a month apart. And those links, as of this morning, were all still active.
  If Franco doesn’t sue them out of business, he’s a better man than I.
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  FaaaaaaaaaaaaaartzWishbone of Arc
  7/17/15 2:17pm
  That sure seems like a lawsuit delivered on a silver platter.
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RandomGuyJennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 4:49pm
I grew up Native American (Oglala Lakota) with out traditional beliefs and spiritual practices, so when I see and read stuff like this about Christians, it’s really baffling to me. There are other people in my tribe who are religious with Jesus stuff and the like, but I never really grew up with it.

I’m very wary of anything to do with Christianity, to be honest, and with good reason.

Good article, chilling first hand accounts.
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  Jennifer C. MartinRandomGuy
  7/17/15 4:52pm
  Can you tell me about your religion and what you grew up with and believe? I’m genuinely interested. I’ve never met anyone who grew up in Native American religion.
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  RandomGuyJennifer C. Martin
  7/17/15 5:55pm
  It’s not a religion, per se. Religion, to me, implies a series of dogmas and laws. I would say Oglala Lakota Spirituality is completely different from Eurocentric Religion.
  
  A lot of what fundies do and say really shapes the way I view Christianity. I view it in the same way, say, people in the US view terrorists (e.g. ISIS is representative of ALL Islamic people)
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JimBJ9Jennifer C. Martin
7/17/15 2:41pm
Man... as a now-atheist (the happy content kind, not the angry anti-theist kind), I thought I had a rough go of it growing up in a moderately-devout Roman Catholic family in a heavy Roman Catholic part of central NY. The older I’ve gotten, the more I realized that I don’t have anything on anyone. The worst impact it had on me is that I had to sit on a hard pew for an hour a week and I wasn’t allowed to play Dungeons & Dragons. I kind of feel like an asshole for thinking that I’d had it hard.

It legitimately scares me to realize what schools of belief are actually out there. You’re doing good work, Jennifer.
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  DunemiJimBJ9
  7/17/15 3:11pm
  Yes. I am an atheist (also a gentle atheist) who grew up Roman Catholic. Pretty seriously Roman Catholic; Catholic school, choir, church on Sunday’s and Wednesday mornings, etc.. But, I have Evangelical cousins, and their childhood was fucked up; speaking in tongues, burning their rock music, hating lots of different people. Catholicism is like a hippy love-fest compared to Fundamental Christianity.
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  meatball77Dunemi
  7/17/15 3:41pm
  I grew up in Oklahoma, I always thought that Catholics were liberal. They were compared to the fundementalists in my area.
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