Kinja reply list

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BobbySeriousRich Juzwiak
5/26/15 12:22pm
I think it’s pretty simple, a hate crime is crime perpetrated solely because of someone’s race, creed, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. I’m not sure that case can be made here.
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  UselessInformation2FireUrImaginationBobbySerious
  5/26/15 12:29pm
  “White faggot” might beg to differ.
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  BobbySeriousUselessInformation2FireUrImagination
  5/26/15 12:32pm
  Just calling someone a slur during a fight doesn't make it a hate crime. For example, if a black guy starts some shit with a white guy, and as things get heated with pushing and shoving and even eventual fisticuffs the white yells "n—ger", that's not a hate crime. A hate crime would be that white guy attacking the black guy SOLELY because of his skin color.
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Rich JuzwiakRich Juzwiak
5/26/15 11:37am
I chose not to link to El-Amin’s Facebook directly so as not to reveal the identity of the man he calls his fiancé, or any other people mentioned there who don’t necessarily have any connection to the crime committed.
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  VtDkDudeRich Juzwiak
  5/26/15 12:26pm
  Wait, his Facebook is still public? I’d probably lock that down immediately, but I also am not planning on knocking someone in the head with a chair so what do I know about how his brain works.
  
  Seriously though, I am always amazed how many people and/or businesses don’t have more restrictions on their social media. (Huckabee, I am also referring to you, bitch.)
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  PoopiesAFRich Juzwiak
  5/26/15 12:33pm
  This is a real easy question and the answer should be obviously no. Was the incident prompted by animus towards one’s sexual orientation? No, it clearly wasn’t.
  
  People, who are members of a group, may call each other terms that are slurs for people of such groups, without that being evidence of animus towards that group.
  
  Black people can call each other nigger while brawling (or while one side attacks another) and nobody should, for a half a second, ponder whether a hate crime has been committed.
  
  If I may be so bold, I reckon we’re even having this debate because Bayna is a big black Muslim brother. I mean, of course that is it.
  
  ***
  
  If anything, it’s incidents like this which cause me to oppose Hate Crimes as separate criminal offenses and instead, to the extent bias (racial, sexual orientation, gender, origin etc . . . . ) was a motivating factor, I believe that it should be weighed at sentencing. Otherwise, such Crimes are too prone to structural bias in the manner in which we see the unequal application of the death penalty, among other areas. For example, in England, the FA (the soccer governing body) has strict rules on racial bias and discrimination. However, it’s applied by the FA and because of subjective and structural bias, has thus far punished far more persons of color and foreigners for bias offenses, then White Englishmen, despite the fact that racial bias is rampant at games.
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TRUMP DELENDUS EST (fka Chatham Harrison)Rich Juzwiak
5/26/15 12:29pm
Is it a hate crime? (ETA: Well, not provably enough to charge him with it. I am uncertain if what he did counts, and I don’t know that I, as a straight man, can stand in judgment of that.) But whoever handles the sentencing should take a look at the ugliness that came out of his mouth, and throw the book at him for the very provable assault he perpetrated. It doesn’t have to be a hate crime to be hateful.

For what it’s worth, I am a rather large guy, and I’ve been especially trained to sublimate that kind of violent impulse, because if I want to hurt somebody, I really can. Seeing someone like me attack a smaller person with virtually no provocation gives me the same feeling I have when I see a parent hitting their kid. Taking advantage of your strength to hurt someone who you know can’t really fight back is totally unacceptable.

P.S. On reflection, prosecution for hate crimes is a lot like prosecution for rape. It’s about the mindset of the attacker. It might be better to put this guy away for the crime the court can prove than it is to risk failing to convict on a more ambitious charge. However, I will not fault anyone who argues that this is a hate crime, just as I do not fault anyone who argues that a rapist ought to face rape charges, even if that risks a failed conviction.
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  Medieval KnievelTRUMP DELENDUS EST (fka Chatham Harrison)
  5/26/15 12:39pm
  The hell are you talking about? Prosecuting rape is all about the mindset of the attacker? And this was not a hate crime, but he should get a stiffer sentence for his words and thoughts? Seriously, the hell you talking about?
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  TRUMP DELENDUS EST (fka Chatham Harrison)Medieval Knievel
  5/26/15 12:50pm
  That was poor organization. The “mindset of the attacker” part was not supposed to be compared to rape, that was just meant to refer to how hate crimes are particularly hard to gain conviction. That was my mistake. I’d edit it, but it’s too late.
  
  It’s not a hate crime, in my opinion. I don’t think El-Amin attacked Snipes for being gay. But, his attack was personally hateful, and the sentencing ought to reflect that.
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Isaac88Rich Juzwiak
5/26/15 12:33pm
If this is a hate crime then we need a new term for actual hate crimes. Two dudes talked shit to each other in a bar. One dude hit the other with a chair. Why does it have to be more complicated than that? “You see, Billy, gay people can be fucking dirtbags who can’t control their temper. Just like me and you.”
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  phunkshunIsaac88
  5/26/15 12:44pm
  I sorta agree with this. They had beef and one got hit with a chair. It’s assault. I don’t think this qualifies.
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  SighSighSigh11111Isaac88
  5/26/15 1:42pm
  So if these two had been black/Asian and he had called them “black/yellow faggots”, would that qualify as a racial hate crime?
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Fleur-de-litRich Juzwiak
5/26/15 12:20pm
Self-hate crime, maybe? Is that even a thing?
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  Citizen-KangFleur-de-lit
  5/26/15 12:31pm
  I believe it’s called the “Clayton Bigsby” effect as noted by that eminent social theorist, Dave Chappelle:
  
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  MiniatureamericanflagsforothersFleur-de-lit
  5/26/15 12:32pm
  But if he was motivated because of his victim being, say, too effeminate, I think that would definitely qualify. A crime based on a sub-niche of an immutable characterstic would still be a hate crime.
  
  E.g. An orthodox jew attacking a reform jew for his religious beliefs would be classified as a hate crime.
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Graby SauceRich Juzwiak
5/26/15 1:05pm
This was not a hate crime. This was a fight. Snipes pulled the victim card, and certainly got the worst of it, but he also instigated the fight (apparently was fighting first with his boyfriend, which spilled El- Amin’s drink, then instead of apologizing got mouthy) and according to one witness, threw the first punch. That doesn’t mean he deserved a chair to the head or that El-Amin was justified in throwing it. It simply means that this was not a targeted crime based on hate.
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  humanSuitcaseGraby Sauce
  5/26/15 3:34pm
  Agreed. If this was a hate crime, then 99% fights on Jerry Springer/Maury Povich-esque shows are hate crimes.
  
  GIF
  
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  Notaboutyou111Graby Sauce
  5/27/15 4:08am
  Yea, I’m loving how the little fella was heard calling ‘chair thrower’ a nigger by several witnesses, which led to the beat down. This is open & shut. Not a hate crime but definitely assault.
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EtchasketchistRich Juzwiak
5/26/15 12:37pm
I’m going with “not-a-hate-crime” because the impetus seemed to be “spilled drinks” and “words exchanged” and “general sociopathy” as opposed to “homophobia”. Yelling out a slur in the middle of an otherwise normal fight doesn’t make it a hate crime. That doesn’t seem to be within the spirit of the law.
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ChadeJohnsonRich Juzwiak
5/26/15 12:20pm
From the beginning I saw this for what it was; a privileged gay white male who wanted to cover for his assholish behavior by crying out that he was a victim of a hate crime.
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humanSuitcaseRich Juzwiak
5/26/15 12:30pm

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. My client pleads shruggie.”
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benjaminalloverRich Juzwiak
5/26/15 12:58pm
I think a gay man can commit a hate crime against another gay man, though I’m just not sure in this case. When my friend first came out of the closet- the first kid in our high school to ever do so- he used faggot as a derogatory term for a more effeminate gay kid who was still in the closet. I always thought that was homophobic, and now that my friend is older, he does too. In the same way, women can be systemically and acutely sexist toward other women. I don’t see how a hate crime is different in terms of the possibility of a gay man attacking another gay man for being gay, or rather for being incorrectly gay, or too gay, or the wrong kind of gay. It’s entirely possible to discriminate, systemically abuse, or even hate a group you’re a member of, or a subset of that group.
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