Kinja reply list

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The_ChadHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:27pm
I guess I’m not positive of the point of the series. If you’re trying to say that cutting benefits will harm people that genuinely need them, then that’s self-evident and they’re aware of that. If you’re saying, “These people are a good representation of people that are on benefits, and a good representation of the population that people are upset that have them”.. that’s just woefully ignorant.
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  ThrumbolioThe_Chad
  5/20/15 1:32pm
  If you’re saying, “These people are a good representation of people that are on benefits, and a good representation of the population that people are upset that have them”.. that’s just woefully ignorant.
  
  Are you saying that the inverse is true, and that the “population that people are upset that have them” is the larger population?
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  The_ChadThrumbolio
  5/20/15 1:34pm
  I don’t know enough to say that they are a larger population, and wasn’t implying they were. I suspect that it’s a significant portion of people that abuse the benefits, but that’s probably biased from growing up in a large city where it’s more prevalent. I was saying that the people that respond to a Gawker request for stories about being on benefits aren’t exactly going to have a large overlap with the population of people that abuse public benefits, on a Venn diagram.
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AFSHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:36pm
The misconception that anyone - on any form of assistance - is having a great time and living it up guilt-free is probably the biggest injustice of this whole mess.
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  BlatheringAFS
  5/20/15 1:51pm
  I’d agree. That’s what I always end up harping on in the comments. I see the top comment right now is already a “well, sure, THESE people are okay, but I know a guy who knows a guy who bought lobster...”
  
  I find a lot of that judgment is racism. Black guy smiling at 10 am on the stoop? Must be a welfare bum living the high life on our dime. Those snap judgments have become the basis of an entire party’s social platform.
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  Nemesis0999Blathering
  5/20/15 2:18pm
  That is always my favorite as well, someone will argue look they are on food stamps why do they have a smart phone. Never mind that you can buy one for $5 used and use it on Wifi but that is too much for some people.
  
  I will still never forget the argument I had with one guy who says he saw someone driving a Mercedes while asking about food stamps. When I asked about the model, year, and condition of the car his answer was looked new. This could have been donated from a hurricane area and be a terrible vehicle but he didn’t care all he saw was a badge and assumed they shouldn’t be able to get food stamps.
  
  I will say I’ve never been on or had to worry about this. I’m not from a wealthy family but my parents financially prepared and my wife and I save quite a bit. The only worry I've had is something medical happens to my kids which drains our funds away. This is the reason I still feel we need a national healthcare program that should include mental health.
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pnw-hikerHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:27pm
Pretty much everyone is only one diagnosis away from being in poverty.
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  amgarrepnw-hiker
  5/20/15 1:41pm
  It doesn’t have to be your own diagnosis either! What struck me were the people who had to put everything aside to care for someone in their family. Who wouldn’t do that for a mom or a kid? But no job would wait for you to come back. Almost no one has just enough savings to get them through years of no income. I wonder if there is/should be some kind of insurance you can buy not if you become disabled but if you can’t work because you are caring for a family member.
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  Dolemitepnw-hiker
  5/20/15 1:46pm
  Having a real healthcare system in this country would fix *so* many problems. Too bad corporate interests take precedence over the welfare of the country and citizens.
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Perry DowningHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:46pm
My niece desperately needed a place to stay when she and her four girls aged 0-8 had to leave an abusive situation. I and my husband invited them to live with us in our 2 br flat. Now we’re all quite . . . cozy. She receives around $350 in food assistance and $500 in cash. I’ve always supported assistance but had no idea what it entailed. Watching the hoops she must jump through to keep her support is horrid. The system makes it impossible for her to work because of childcare costs. It haunts me and enrages me.

Thank you for this series.
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  NotaBabyKillerPerry Downing
  5/20/15 2:09pm
  OMG. Yeah, making people actually fill out paperwork for money to assist them, is so disheartening.
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  Perry DowningNotaBabyKiller
  5/20/15 2:12pm
  It's so much more than that. The process is interminable and dehumanizing. It also takes a stunning amount of time. And you get stuck. I hope you or your people never experience it.
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Pie-pieHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:29pm
Not making judgment at all about people needing to be on public assistance but WHY the fuck would you go to a chiropractor, especially one not covered by your insurance that is provided by your job at the time, after an injury instead of an orthopedic or spinal doctor that was covered???

I mean sure, this helps that poor guy not at all but if anyone else is in that position at least have it looked at by people you’re covered by...even if you after decided to have someone else do the treatment!
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  AssFault on the Highway to HellPie-pie
  5/20/15 1:34pm
  If they have a high deductible, it’s cheaper to see a chiropractor than a specialist, even if that specialist is in-network. Most plans that don’t have a high deductible have unaffordable monthly premiums. Some employers don’t even offer low- or no-deductible plans.
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  ThrumbolioPie-pie
  5/20/15 1:34pm
  Not making judgment at all about people needing to be on public assistance but WHY the fuck would you go to a chiropractor, especially one not covered by your insurance that is provided by your job at the time, after an injury instead of an orthopedic or spinal doctor that was covered???
  
  Can’t disagree here, having dealt with sciatica for a decade and change. Best course of action is usually aggressive PT, which is covered by most major insurance plans.
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GrayMattersHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:46pm
Hamilton, you’re doing a real service publishing these. There’s no choice given how backward our discourse is, but I’m so tired of having to make the moral case that people should not starve in this country. The productivity of the American worker has doubled since I was born, those gains have ended up in the pockets of our least impressive fellow-citizens, and the only robust debate we have is whether the poor and working class should die miserable in a gutter or under a roof.
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  UrbanNunEnthusiastGrayMatters
  5/20/15 2:19pm
  I’m so tired of having to make the moral case that people should not starve in this country
  
  Well now see that’s part of the problem - I know plenty of people who think just by saying that you’re being alarmist, that “nobody is going to die in the streets” (direct quote from a friend) and that people who are on these programs simply need to work harder. They’ve never experienced it, or they watch too much Fox News, so a lot of them truly think these people just need to work more, or should have to pay for their own “life mistakes” or whatever. They really don’t understand (and many don’t care to understand) just how hand-to-mouth a lot of people in this country actually live and that blame and stinginess are not productive or helpful.
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  GrayMattersUrbanNunEnthusiast
  5/20/15 2:23pm
  Part of what exhausts me is the people’s position you’re describing is provably wrong from an economic perspective. It’s not a matter of empathy or feelings or ideology. There just aren’t jobs for everyone.
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LadyDieHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:49pm
I was on SSDI (federal disability benefits) for about 5 years during the early-mid 2000s. I received about $800-900/month and this was generous for federal disability as the amount was based on my salary as an account manager in publishing before I got too sick to work.

I did not get Medicare until I’d been on SSDI for three years (that was the rule at the time.) Before I qualified for Medicare, I attempted to get Medicaid but my $800/month was too much to qualify. So I had to buy private insurance with a hefty deductible to the tune of $300/mo. I have no children so I was supporting only myself, but doing so on $500/mo is tough, even when you’re being provided housing through another’s charity.

I lived with a family member during this time and drove a car that she owned, having sold mine to cover some of my medical costs. I applied for subsidized housing but was actually recovered and working again before my name came up on the very long waiting list. My qualify of life was not high during this period, for obvious reasons. At one point I became so despondent over the pain of illness and anxiety of poverty that I attempted suicide.

When I recovered enough to consider working part-time, I couldn’t get a job. At the same time, I learned that while I was only healthy enough to work part-time, if I earned over a certain amount I would lose my disability benefits. This made job searching a matter of finding a job that either made up for the loss of the benefits or pay so low that I wouldn’t lose them, but nothing in between or my quality of life would actually suffer further for trying to work.

I went to vocational rehabilitation where someone watched over my shoulder while I applied for the same type of jobs I’d been applying for without success. When, after some months of the same level of success, I got a pat on the shoulder, a “the market is really bad right now,” then discharged as “non-compliant” when I expressed a lack of satisfaction with their service.

So I went back to school to get re-educated in a new field. The whole time, the SSA was on my ass about whether or not I was still disabled and I had to prove it via examination twice. Then when I was both retrained and capable of working full time and called them to report I was no longer disabled and they could stop sending checks, they continued to do so for years. It became quite a legal tangle that I won’t elaborate on.

I’m currently employed full-time and covering my expenses but still working to repair the credit rating decimated by my illness.

That’s my story of being a freeloading welfare queen. Or “tax consumer” as one ex-friend called me.
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walterCOCKrightHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:52pm
You are a fucking idiot if you think that life is easy. Life is tough on $40K a year in America. The thing that always bothered me is this: If I am forced to give $100 to either the rich or the poor why on earth would you choose to give to the rich? I mean at the very least you KNOW that the $100 given to the poor will go right into the local economy almost immediately while the $100 to the rich will end up in some entitled kids grubby paws and from there its only a matter of time until its in a selfie with like 1000 similar bills on the rich kids of instagram. Cutting programs for the poor is evil.

The tax deductions the the top 20% total more than $500 billion a year. Compare that to: $212 billion.

there are five big programs in the Cato list that are most analogous to what people think of as “welfare”: The refundable part of the Earned Income Tax Credit ($55 billion), Temporary Assistance for Needy Families ($21 billion), Supplemental Security Income ($43.7 billion), food stamps ($75 billion), and housing vouchers ($18 billion) and the Child Tax Credit. All together, that’s around $212 billion dollars.”

Lets see over $500 billion to people WHO DON’T NEED IT or $212 billion to people that depend on it for survival or from being HOMELESS... hmm ????

Wealth inequality is responsible for so much turmoil on this planet. I see revolution as the next obvious action as there are way more people with little than the elite. All we really need is solidarity to get what we want... that’s a huge goal. Can you imagine if everyone was only divided on wealthy or not wealthy? No race, no sexual orientation or religion just rich and everyone else. Can you imagine what could be accomplished?? Now you understand why race and other dividers are pushed so hard by those in control. Divide and conquer! DOne and DONE.

X-
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  sugarsnap-peawalterCOCKright
  5/20/15 2:36pm
  Word, except for all of the almost-poor who believe that supporting the truly poor is what is holding them back.
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  walterCOCKrightsugarsnap-pea
  5/20/15 2:40pm
  It’s amazing isn’t it? It would make much more sense if the people that vote for these types of cuts were all the top earners, but they’re not. This points exactly to my last point about how divided we are as a people.
  
  X-
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Dolly Parton's Third BoobHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:28pm
I can’t believe most people aren’t OK with temporary needs for public assistance. But the true stories of those who for one reason or another make it a life goal to be on public assistance including SSD rightfully drive people crazy. My brother is one of them, and never so ambitious as when his benefits get threatened.
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  ThrumbolioDolly Parton's Third Boob
  5/20/15 1:31pm
  There are people and there are lazy shitbags. We all know lazy shitbags. Most people aren’t lazy shitbags, and actually want to achieve the sort of self sufficiency and independence that is drilled into them by our culture from birth.
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  OcelotRexThrumbolio
  5/20/15 1:48pm
  I would suggest working in public housing for a few years. While I only reviewed 25,000 tenant files in my tenure, I would say about 50% of them were generational tenants who grew up in their parents units and then got their own when they turned 18. It was a hit to the parents benefits because they would lose 2-3 dependents each time when the 18 year old would take their children with them to the new unit. The new income calculation would end up saving some on the monthly amount but never enough to cover the loss in other assistance.
  
  I wish I could tell you that this was exaggeration but sadly I cannot.
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DanCopelandHamilton Nolan
5/20/15 1:50pm
The fact that every in-depth investigation into fraud in these public assistance programs keeps finding remarkably little and yet the common sentiment is that fraud in these programs is rampant is further proof that the concern-trolling about public assistance fraud is based not in reality but in a need to justify the selfishness of the concern-trolls. Bankers literally turned bailouts into executive bonuses and yet you’ll never see the welfare fraud worriers clutching their pearls about corporate subsidies.
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  LenasUnderpantsDanCopeland
  5/20/15 5:02pm
  It’s just a dog-whistle for racism.
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