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    HarvestMoonStassa Edwards
    3/21/15 11:37am

    French healthcare makes France an amazing place to have a baby.

    Postpartum care includes VAGINA CAMP (includes massages).

    http://thestir.cafemom.com/baby/133185/pr...

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      dalilaHarvestMoon
      3/21/15 11:41am

      Ah, the comments on that article are such a pleasant way to start a Saturday!

      I can't believe I'm the only one who read this and thought that it sounded ridiculous! My lady parts are just fine after 3 kids, thank you...and I didn't need the government to help me get there!

      Isn't that nice!

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      HarvestMoondalila
      3/21/15 11:49am

      And this, for the tea party commentariat:

      France spent $3,464 per person on health care in 2004, compared with $6,096 in the United States, according to the World Health Organization. Yet Frenchmen live on average two years longer than American men do, and Frenchwomen live four years longer. The infant mortality rate in France is 43 percent lower than in the United States.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/opi...

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    000Stassa Edwards
    3/21/15 11:41am
    GIF
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      dalila000
      3/21/15 11:48am

      Klaus, Eggplant Friday was yesterday.

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      000dalila
      3/21/15 11:52am
      GIF
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    Snacktastic Part II: the Snack AwakensStassa Edwards
    3/21/15 12:08pm

    Well, good. I wish we had that in the US. There are deeper issues in the US that aren't as prevalent in Europe as a whole, even with birth rate differences.

    I sometimes worked with women from North and West Philly, who were chronically food insecure as a counselor. I'd see pregnant women who couldn't eat every day because they didn't have enough money to last them through the months and couldn't buy decent food b/c of food deserts and because so many apartments don't have refrigerators in some neighborhoods, preventing access to frozen food.

    I think that the problems with supporting mothers gets really tied up in middle class problems and we forget that we have deep infrastructural failures that are also a problem and I just wanted to mention them.

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      oldscrumbySnacktastic Part II: the Snack Awakens
      3/21/15 12:31pm

      It's really not that different of an issue. We've been slashing and burning the welfare state for decades now and that encompasses both healthcare and food assistance along with other programs.

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      yilichiyaoSnacktastic Part II: the Snack Awakens
      3/21/15 12:50pm

      Thank you for helping our city. Big hugs and 2 million kisses for you.

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    Bbbbbonbonbssssss sStassa Edwards
    3/21/15 12:32pm

    Seriously though, having a baby and dealing with work is a nightmare. I am currently out on FMLA leave for the birth of my child- 5 weeks in, my work decided they are not going to pay me for my leave... Even though I have more than enough sick leave to cover my time off. Also, they are making it retroactively effective, so even after I return- I won't get paid for 5 weeks. Plus, everyone I work with acts like I'm the jerk for expecting to receive my paid time off. I guess it's anticipated that if you want to have a baby in this country you should be able to afford ridiculous medical expenses and not be paid for 6-12 weeks.

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      ZsaZsa1Bbbbbonbonbssssss s
      3/21/15 12:43pm

      That.... is SO fucked up, but sadly I find myself completely unsurprised!

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      timetorambleonBbbbbonbonbssssss s
      3/21/15 12:43pm

      How is that legal?

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    MsEsquireStassa Edwards
    3/21/15 12:04pm

    Before we start praising France as a reproductive paradise, consider that French women have to wait 7 days for an abortion because the state and the family are "working so closely together" that the second an egg is fertilized the state interest in the family starts to override personal autonomy. The same thing that drives these great postpartum policies — i.e. a policy goal of raising the birth rate — also results in draconian abortion policy. I'm starting to wonder if Scandinavia* is the only place in the world with progressive reproductive policies that stem from actual respect for women and female autonomy as opposed to population concerns. (*And certain U.S. states likes California!)

    It's also worth noting that other European countries like Italy have amazing maternity leave policies, but these end up hurting women in the workplace because employers don't want to hire someone who they think is on the brink of a year-long maternity leave. It's technically illegal to discriminate in hiring based on gender, but it's also practically impossible to win that lawsuit. So the key is not just good policies, but enforcement of those policies, which seems to be France's real strong suit.

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      GunshineAndPainbowsMsEsquire
      3/21/15 5:35pm

      The constant scrutiny of "birth rates" makes me squirm. Because you know that your female body and life choices are on the line if the state decides that they want more or less babies for any given reason.

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      MsEsquireGunshineAndPainbows
      3/22/15 9:24am

      Agreed. Israel has really insane abortion policies for that reason.

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    atinyblueowlStassa Edwards
    3/21/15 11:45am

    This idea of the "package" is very intriguing to me and it's a good description of what I've attempted to describe to people previously about why I don't want children...

    I might be more open to the possibility of having kids if not for the child-industrial complex that seems so prevalent. I live in a big city, and all around me, my friends/peers are worried about getting their child into the right preschool or kindergarten and doing eight billion "Mommy and Me" classes and curating an Instagram feed that looks like a layout for Baby Vogue. Add in the constant conversations about breast feeding and vaccinations and attachment parenting and free range parenting and I just turn into the "NOPE" octopus. The "package" of parenthood is, for me, what moves the needle from "indifferent and leaning towards no" all the way to "not in this lifetime!"

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      Wyette Urpatinyblueowl
      3/21/15 12:06pm

      I've just hit a point in life where I've been finally thinking about it is a possibility, but for many of the reasons you listed, and the realization that I enjoy my life as is and would be ill-suited to it's disruption, we've decided NOPE. The mommy wars give me anxiety and I don't even have a dog in that fight.

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      ZsaZsa1atinyblueowl
      3/21/15 12:39pm

      I hear you sister. I don't want kids either but maybe it's because I live in the US of A. Not only would it be catastrophic on a financial and work level, but I'd be on my own and dealing with these crazy-ass fucking people who screech made-up issues and call the cops if you let your kid play at the park without a surveillance drone in sight.

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    Distant_HorizonStassa Edwards
    3/21/15 12:47pm

    Cue all the people who will start shouting about dirty socialism and bootstraps.

    Because hey, just because the system works great for many highly developed countries doesn't mean that it's a good system, right? Right?

    Better go back to punishing women for having sex. That always works out great.

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      Michael LaidupDistant_Horizon
      3/21/15 1:58pm

      People keep making the claim that you can't compare the US to Sweden (I know this particular piece is about France, but I'm using Sweden because, that's why) because of the difference in size and geography, but they are surprisingly comparable: They have similar population density (actually the US has more people per square km (35 to 24) despite the fact that remote populations are often used as an argument as to why Scandinavian models of government wouldn't work), and they have similar GDP (again the US are better off with somewhere between 8 and 12 thousand dollars more per capita per year).

      Basically the only reason the US isn't an egalitarian paradise is the American Dream™ and the red scare...

      Basically you can blame it all on Truman!

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      House Milkshaker of DaftbollocksDistant_Horizon
      3/21/15 8:30pm

      Cue all the people who will start shouting about dirty socialism and bootstraps.

      As someone from the EU, this makes me laugh. I would say more "cue all the people talking about countries they know nothing about first hand. Instead basing their opinion entirely on statistics from some magazine article they remember from about 3 years ago. Probably on Jezebel".

      Comparing France and the US is apples and oranges and bananas and strawberries. Having lived in both countries (and coming from a third), there is mostly nothing either does the same. Maybe this is the source of all the shouting.

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    eleonoreStassa Edwards
    3/21/15 11:49am

    Yes! Honestly, France is an amazing place to start a family. If you have access to French health care, all birth-related care is top notch and free. You and your partner get tons of time off, and it is socially acceptable to take it. Even if you end up paying for childcare, it's never more than 500 euros a month. It's the best.

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      Locksmith-of-Loveeleonore
      3/21/15 1:20pm

      i am an american living in france and married to a french woman. we have an 18 month old girl. my wife is a french civil servant, a grade school teacher, and i am currently unemployed. normally i am a stay at home dad anyways, but day care is good for socialization and catching all the germs of other kids. with our combined income, full daycare only costs us about €70 ($80?) per month. i think it is only a bit more if food is provided. you should see their menu! :D

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    Vivi21Stassa Edwards
    3/21/15 11:56am

    Yes, from what I know of France, they have a great system of reasonably priced, state-run healthcare. Not having to pay a ridiculous sum per year for a nanny makes it much easier for women to stay in the workforce. We are woefully behind in this country when it comes to maternity/paternity leave, healthcare, and childcare.

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      Michael LaidupVivi21
      3/21/15 2:12pm

      The US is really a curious case study for women's rights circa 1990's and onwards. Just like the rest of the 'Western World' you have an abundance - that's turned into a majority - of women in higher education, but unlike the rest of the world, your educational system is largely private, so the government isn't really losing any money educating women and then turning them away from the workforce.

      Imagine if your colleges were completely state-funded and 55% of the graduates were actively discouraged from seeking employment. Who would yell louder? Republicans over the waste of public money or, well, the mousy whisper we hear from the so-called left-wing these days.

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    Sir HalffastStassa Edwards
    3/21/15 12:03pm

    Send zis baby to le salon de tanning, oui?

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