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ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ : Riot GRRR is RUNNING WILDAnonymous
3/18/15 2:44pm

On the other hand, we'll take the person who has an A-minus GPA but spends most of her free time in a research lab breeding generations of flies for genetic tests, thank you very much.

Which is exactly why the process is bullshit. Because as a grad student, I can tell you that high school students mostly do jack shit in the lab except waste my damn time. At least the ball washer is doing something useful for someone.

And keeping with the theme of this post, more often than not the high school kids that do work in labs are privileged/connected as shit, not Mary Sues struggling against the odds trying to cure cancerbolAIDS.
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  laryssaʕ•ᴥ•ʔ : Riot GRRR is RUNNING WILD
  3/18/15 2:52pm
  I had the same experience.
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  toothpetardʕ•ᴥ•ʔ : Riot GRRR is RUNNING WILD
  3/18/15 2:54pm
  At least (not really) doing the lab work allows one to look down on ball washers at the range.
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SailingAwayAnonymous
3/18/15 2:40pm
I have been told from a family member who taught at Harvard, "The smartest kid at Harvard is on par with the smartest person at most good universities the difference is the dumbest kid at Harvard is far smarter than the dumbest university student." Ive always wondered if this was true.
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  e_is_real_i_isntSailingAway
  3/18/15 2:48pm
  I liked the sign that MIT students put up: Harvard - because everyone needs a back-up school.
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  toothpetardSailingAway
  3/18/15 2:48pm
  Data point:
  
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MWarnerMAnonymous
3/18/15 3:05pm
A friend of mine who used to work at Princeton admissions told me that all of the ivies deliberately encourage people they know won't even be considered for admission to apply, because admissions selectivity is one of the variables that go into the USNWR college rankings. Harvard is obviously a highly selective school, but their "6% acceptance rate" is pretty meaningless because probably a third of the people rejected aren't serious candidates and were never intended to be.
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  frickinehMWarnerM
  3/18/15 3:19pm
  That would explain why I got the "apply here, we're totally not being sarcastic" letters from a bunch of ivies after ACT scores came out. I laughed and laughed and threw them all away, because I had a 2.9 GPA and there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting in anywhere but a state school. Shit, even the state school hesitated. Had I known, I would've sent applications to all of them with essays written in crayon. I'm giving that way.
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  juniperjonesMWarnerM
  3/18/15 3:26pm
  I think the Common Application is also a cause of the increase in "selectivity." When I was applying in the dark ages, each college had a separate application (which you sent through the MAIL! Told you it was the dark ages) — and you may have had to write more than one essay because the prompts were not all the same. It made it more arduous to apply to huge numbers of schools so people were more judicious about where they applied.
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MizJenkinsAnonymous
3/18/15 2:38pm
Instead, I've seen a boringly predictable, on-trend parade of general excellence, like eating a dozen cronuts for dinner. It's interesting in the abstract, but the palate needs cleansing after a while. Hearing the liberal-upper-middle-class consensus view of the world (but with a twist, like backpacking through Southeast Asia!) certainly does not hurt an applicant. On the other hand, if I wanted that I would just sit on the toilet and listen to NPR.

This is exactly how I feel perusing Tinder in New York City (mingled with a fair amount of WTF and guys from the Bronx).
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  Gary-XMizJenkins
  3/18/15 2:52pm
  Man, if I read one more profile that says "I love adventure!" my phone will end up against a brick wall.
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  JeremyGary-X
  3/18/15 3:18pm
  Yeah, I don't like adventure. You know what I like? Air conditioning. Also, not having parasites burrow into my flesh.
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Red DetachmentAnonymous
3/18/15 2:56pm
My husband and I both went to a state school, albeit one of the best ranked ones. My husband got his PhD at a Fancy Private School and now is a professor at another Fancy Private School, not an Ivy, but close. We agree any of our future kids will attend a state school. From what we've seen on both sides of things, at the undergrad level the money spent on an elite education is not worth it. (Post graduate education is another story.)
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  hashtagsandhashishRed Detachment
  3/18/15 3:14pm
  This. I taught at one of the top state schools in the nation and I regularly ran into Hahvahd faculty at conferences. Guess what? We were assigning the same books and covering the same topics. Difference is access to funding, mostly.
  
  For undergrads, a great state school beats the hell out of the cost of the Ivy's or 4-yr lib arts. We routinely sent undergrads to elite graduate programs.
  
  For the record, I'm a product of a state-school mostly known for partying and I had a great undergrad education. Why? Because very few students actually gave a shit about learning so I had almost unlimited access to the faculty in my major. Got to drink my face off for 4 years, party with cute chicks, tailgate, etc. and still was lucky enough to attend a great graduate program.
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  Olivia Pope's Wine GlassRed Detachment
  3/18/15 3:45pm
  I felt very strongly about this in high school oddly enough, but I feel a bit differently now, I think. I was so adamant about wanting to get out of the wealthy private school bubble that I was insistent about going to a public university.
  
  I went to an urban private school from elementary on up, state school for undergrad, and private for grad school. My brother went to the same state school I did (and no grad school) but my sister went Ivy League (Not Harvard) for undergrad and med school.
  
  I feel like I received an excellent undergrad education. I was in the honors college and had much smaller classes than typical. I had the college football experience I wanted and really had the chance to try out a bunch of things that I don't think I would have done if I continued in that bubble. But that being said, my sister has definitely encountered great opportunities just from her network of friends and peers that may not have happened elsewhere. I went to USC for grad school which definitely has perks if you continue working in LA, but the Ivy League brand extends far and wide.
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dontcallmehoneybearAnonymous
3/18/15 3:09pm
The best way to help those kids you were looking for- the ones who don't have access to resources- is to go into college counseling at a nonprofit or at a public school. The admissions side of the equation doesn't have a lot of room to budge, but you can make a HUGE difference in a student's life by just letting him/her know about their options. Two of my students were just accepted to an elite liberal arts college they had never heard of before they had met me- there are high achieving low income first generation students out there, but a lot of them just don't know where to apply or how to judge what will be a good fit for them. Even if Harvard did want to prioritize these kids, they wouldn't have enough room to admit all of them. And, while I know that Harvard has billions and billions of dollars, the fact of the matter is that they don't have the resources to find those kids, because the only way to find them is to be in the schools 5 days a week building relationships, and that is somewhere between hard and impossible (and also extremely inefficient if you are just trying to find students who will be a good fit at Harvard). PLEASE NOTE: This is not an excuse for Harvard's ish, as a low income applicant/alum I am fully aware of the various levels of BS that exist at the institution.
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  Blatheringdontcallmehoneybear
  3/18/15 3:38pm
  Strongly supporting this.
  
  I had the numbers to go Ivy about a million years ago when I was coming out of high school, but didn't try because I was a dirt poor kid from a trailer park and was scared of what it might be like or what it might cost. It was the right decision for me, actually, but I wonder how many other kids don't know or understand the system and get zero to terrible advice. (My school guidance counselor told everyone, GPA .02 to 4.0, to consider enlisting in the Army. It was her only answer.)
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  Von Clyderdale: Exiled from JezebelBlathering
  3/18/15 3:47pm
  We had a "college counselor" and I think I met with him one time. I'm not sure what he even did aside from advise kids to go into the army.
  
  "They pay for your education! You can travel the world!"
  
  And that sounds great to poor kids.
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fishyAnonymous
3/18/15 2:54pm
Sorry, but this person is not a Harvard gatekeeper. He is an alumnus invited to participate in the admission process because (1) small pieces of valuable information COULD be gained from an interview, but more importantly because (2) it keeps HIM feeling connected to the institution and because (3) it makes students feel like this is an important part of the process.

As an ACTUAL gatekeeper who ACTUALLY read and decided applications, I can say that alumni interviews rarely affect the process in a meaningful way, and that's because we were much more interested in who a student is AS A WHOLE PERSON than what they say in 30 minutes with an alumnus who may have his own mission/prerogative/style/priorities. Dude isn't wrong about the value of the interview, but he's not exactly providing meaningful insight into the Ivy League's admission process. That he boils everything down to academic stats (and suggests, wrongly, that perfect grades/scores will guarantee admission) just reinforces that fact.

TL;DR: an Insider's view, this is not.
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  ╰(　´◔　ω　◔ `)╯< Woke and Bokefishy
  3/18/15 2:59pm
  Not a gatekeeper, more like the doorbell.
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  beth_steelfishy
  3/18/15 3:09pm
  Sounds about right. I did alumni interviews for my not-Harvard alma mater for two or three years and I can remember saying something insightful about exactly one person.
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toothpetardAnonymous
3/18/15 2:28pm
It's like an X ray of the foundations of meritocracy.
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  obliquelytoothpetard
  3/18/15 3:28pm
  It's even more grotesque if you just start counting: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/opi…
  
  Affirmative action exists for the dominant majority.
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  RacerX450toothpetard
  3/18/15 4:54pm
  
  It's like an X ray of the foundations of ~~meritocracy~~ aristocracy.
  
  Fixed that for you.
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medrawtAnonymous
3/18/15 2:42pm
When I took my version of the Great American College Tour (spring 2000) both I and my father were struck by the different demeanor of the little presentation given to prospective applicants at Harvard and Columbia. At Columbia they managed to persuasively sell me on the idea that the school was eager to have "you" (where you could just fill in whatever your flattering self-perception was - at any rate, Columbia turned out to not be eager to have me), whereas at Harvard the people doing the talking did a terrible job of concealing the belief that we would be lucky if Harvard deigned to admit us (I was not one of the chosen). I don't think that says anything firm about the character of the schools, but as an exercise in how they chose to present themselves at that time, it was interesting, and contributed to Columbia being my top choice (it was also a more realistic get for me; a friend with essentially identical qualities WAS admitted; the kids from my school who got into Harvard were smart and had nice scores, but I'm confident their competitive advantage either had to do with family history or lacrosse [or both]).
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  CrescatVirginiamedrawt
  3/18/15 3:00pm
  So, how was Tufts?
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  JillKelleysTitsmedrawt
  3/18/15 3:01pm
  So where did you end up? CUNY?
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iggysaab9Anonymous
3/18/15 5:24pm
Hi. I'm a Harvard student and I actually work in the admissions office. This post is utter bullshit. I'll list a couple of reasons:

1. The author did not work in the admissions office. Rather, he/she is a graduate who conducts applicant interviews. This is not a paid position. Interviewers' decisions hardly affect a student's decision to be accepted or not. Rather, interviews basically exist to ensure that the college is not admitting kids who are psychopaths and don't have the ability to hold a normal conversation. This author way overstates his/her importance.

2. This phrase shows how little knowledge the author has about Harvard, its courses, and what the academic environment looks like:"Pure intelligence is one part, hence the focus on scores and GPAs. Harvard is difficult, and someone who has never seen a differential equation will probably struggle in the basic required math courses; someone who has never read a Steinbeck novel or a Shakespeare play will probably feel excluded from general English Lit." Harvard doesn't have a general English lit class as a requirement. Rather, students take expository classes on any subject they desire: I took one on AIDS in America. Second, you don't need to take a math class. I took a cooking class that counted for my math credit.

3. Harvard is crazy diverse. Your listing of five potential applicants and your categorization of them all as white only serves to create the illusion that Harvard is all white. Bullshit. I am a hispanic male from a poor public school. There are a bunch of non-white non-rich people on campus. Stop trying to elevate yourself and posit yourself on a pedestal.

4. People who are admitted are generally pretty genuine. You can't get mad at applicants for preparing a quasi-speech for their interview—they're of course nervous and they really care about where they get in. Don't blame them for trying their best.

5. Yes, everyone admitted will have nearly perfect SAT, AP, ACT, etc. scores. That's a fact. That, however, doesn't mean kids aren't genuine or don't have a life beyond school. Maybe that was who you were as a high schooler. I for sure was not.

Your oversimplifications, posturing, and blatant lies about Harvard disgust me.

Sincerely,

An Actual Harvard Admissions Person

P.S. You refer to yourself as the "gatekeeper" in the title, but later allude to your lack of power in the system. Nice job trying to solicit clicks.
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  Leah Finneganiggysaab9
  3/18/15 5:56pm
  you seem cool
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  visitingprofessoriggysaab9
  3/18/15 6:03pm
  You are why people hate Harvard. Congratulations.
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