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    fukyocouchTaylor Berman
    1/08/15 12:42pm

    I keep hearing about these mythical christian terrorists. Other than Northern Ireland, which is christians killing other christians, can anyone give me an example of an active christian terrorist organization ala al queda ? And spare me the Timothy McViegh comparison. He may have been christian but he was driven by his anti-government paranoia not religion.

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      weirwoodtreehugger3fukyocouch
      1/08/15 1:41pm

      That you've never heard of anti abortion militants is telling.

      There's the George Tiller assassination for example. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina…

      If you want a group, how about Army of God. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_G…

      Maybe you should spend thirty seconds on Google before declaring Christian terrorists mythical.

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      Donald Pumpweirwoodtreehugger3
      1/08/15 2:01pm

      Two cases. Great. It's no a global phenomenon that happens on a regular basis. Christians aren't running around kidnapping people and cutting off their heads. They aren't shooting up Fox when Family Guy makes fun on Jesus. Find me all the Christian suicide bombers.

      I'm an atheist, so I have no horse in the race, but let's stop pretending that Christian terrorism is anywhere near the same as Islamic terrorism in 2015. Go poll Christians in the US, you aren't going to get 10-20% of them saying that Levitical law should be upheld or that people should be punishable by death for leaving Christianity.

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    sigmaoctansTaylor Berman
    1/08/15 12:39pm

    Buzzfeed has a good post up right now, filled with quotes from actual Muslim leaders and intellectuals, very eloquently decrying and condemning this violence while also defending their faith as the peaceful, normal faith practiced by billions.

    Perhaps Don Lemon, and the rest of the crowd clamboring for a "condemnation from Muslim leaders", should, you know, listen to the Muslim leaders who are making themselves heard?

    Just a few examples:

    1. Mohammed Ali Gokal, trainee solicitor and former chair of Stanmore Jafferys

    I blanched with disgust when I heard that the murderers had shouted 'Allahu Akber', meaning 'God is great', when carrying out their heinous crimes.

    To my mind they are not Muslims, nor representative of my faith. Islam means peace, and the first principles of its beautiful teachings are founded on respect, compassion, and tolerance. I hope no one is fooled into thinking these men were 'Muslims' in any sense of the word. Suffice it to say the Prophet Muhammad would never have stood for what these murderers have done.

    I would therefore call on all media outlets and politicians to refrain from use of the misrepresentative and scaremongering words like 'Islamist' and 'jihadist'. Was Ahmed Merabet, a Muslim policeman mercilessly executed during the attack, a member of what Nigel Farage scornfully termed 'the Fifth Column'? I think not.

    2. Mohammed Amin, chair of the Conservative Muslim Forum

    When men presume to protect God or protect the memory of the Prophet by killing, they break God's laws as well as man's laws.

    3. Usama Hasan, senior researcher at the Quilliam Foundation

    Muslims and others must move on from mere condemnation to reclaiming Islam, a profound religious, spiritual, mystical, and ethical tradition, from the hate-filled extremists.

    French society must also do more to manifest its exalted ideals of fraternité and egalité, as well as liberté. Roughly 10% of French citizens are Muslim, of overwhelmingly North African origin – the percentage is much higher in urban areas. But this percentage is much lower in media, politics, police, and armed forces. Many French Muslim youth feel disenfranchised and discriminated against, experiencing marginalisation and racism. Unless the above issues, i.e. reclamation of the noble ideals of Islam as well as of the French Republic, are addressed, terrorists will continue to exploit the situation and recruit more people to their perverse cause.

    4. Paul Salahuddin Armstrong, co-director of the Association of British Muslims (AoBM)

    At AoBM, we have maintained our differences with the editorial policies of Charlie Hebdo. We always have had questions about the judgment (but not the right) of publishing images which are predictably deeply offensive to many and have the potential to be inflammatory. However, at the same time we stand in support of freedom of expression and believe that there is no justification whatsoever to take lives of people who we disagree with while exercising this right.

    We note that the Qur'an instructs its believers to argue with the challengers in ways that are best and most gracious. The attacks in Paris symbolise nothing close to these Koranic instructions but instead represent a distortion of faith which is forgiving and open to debate.

    5. Dr Shuja Shafi, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain

    Nothing justifies the taking of life. Those who have killed in the name of our religion today claim to be avenging the insults made against Prophet Muhammad, upon whom be peace. But nothing is more immoral, offensive, and insulting against our beloved Prophet than such a callous act of murder. Our thoughts, prayers and solidarity go to the families of the victims and the people of France.

    Naturally, and unfortunately, discussion will now fall on the right to intentionally publish hurtful material that denigrates religious figures and traditions. But however offended we may be, the ultimate denigration of our faith comes from these murderers who have unjustifiably taken life.

    In the coming weeks Muslims will face the test of having to justify themselves and their place in Western society. As Muslims we are ever mindful of our Lord's injunction to convey our true faith with wisdom and beautiful words. Indeed in the noble Qur'an we are told: 'The true servants of the Merciful are those who walk humbly on the earth and when the ignorant address them they say: Peace.'

    6. Yasmin Khatun, journalist/TV producer

    The trouble we seem to have found ourselves in is that we place such little value to life and its enormity, each individual is so much more than their politics and just a number or a name. I fear this heightened political climate will serve to further polarise communities all over, adding fuel to a hotbed of unrest.

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      New Year New Euphemismssigmaoctans
      1/08/15 12:42pm

      So you quote a bunch of Brits? How exactly does that provide background?

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      cuntybawssigmaoctans
      1/08/15 12:45pm

      Don Lemon: the blunt pencil in the struggle against extremism

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    darkrothkoTaylor Berman
    1/08/15 12:44pm

    I am completely on the the side of Nick Kristof and most reasonable people (which precludes Don Lemon). But "When Christians commit acts of terror, we don't asks priests and pastors to go on national television to condemn these acts, but sadly Muslim public intellectuals, thinkers, leaders, and Islamic scholars have that double standard that we have to deal with" is not an honest statement...the difference of course, is that xtians don't commit terror in the name of their god (Christ)...St. Reagan the Holy is yet a more minor deity. These lunatics did kill in the name of their religion. So, yeah, a bit of la difference there.

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      weirwoodtreehugger3darkrothko
      1/08/15 1:23pm

      The man who murdered abortion provider George Tiller was a Christian whose anti choice extremism was motivated by his Christianity. The media did not blame Christianity for it. They didn't even take anti choice right wing Christians as a whole to task. Nope. He was just a bad apple. A lone crazy guy. This despite the fact that it is nearly impossible for abortion providers in Kansas to do their work because they are constantly stalked and threatened by Christian extremists.

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      darkrothkoweirwoodtreehugger3
      1/08/15 1:40pm

      I don't think that's totally true. Though I'm not going to defend the mass/pop media for being pro-Christian ratings whores. It's also the case that Americans feel that such acts aren't representative of Christianity, right or wrong. The data suggests they're not. The debate of whether such acts as this are representative of Islam is another thing....regardless of my view, it is certainly the case that debate hasn't been decided.

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    ThrumbolioTaylor Berman
    1/08/15 12:32pm

    "When Christians commit acts of terror, we don't asks priests and pastors to go on national television to condemn these acts"

    Uh, we don't? I'm pretty sure that's the first thing reporters do when there's a Christian act of terror: get a response from religious leaders in the area.

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      tzimtzum does not existTaylor Berman
      1/08/15 12:58pm

      "You know, if people want to blame Islam for things, you know, they can blame us for inventing algebra or modern medical anesthesia or having five out of the last 12 Nobel Peace Prize winners."

      I am so goddamned tired of this horseshit. Islam did not invent any of these fucking things any more than you can credit Christianity with inventing chocolate because some monks made it popular.

      Yes, many innovations are thought to have originated in the Arab and Persian world. The Persian empire was immense, and just so happened to be conquering portions of India and snatching up their scientists and mathematicians around the time they like to pat themselves on the back for making so many academic breakthroughs. Fucking funny, that.

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        Rinsakotzimtzum does not exist
        1/08/15 1:07pm

        Yes, you are right.

        It's like claiming Christianity invented the scientific method or calculus. The institution of Islam and Christianity are by in large not responsible for many of their claimed discoveries. It just so happens they were discovered by individuals within there spheres of influence.

        So if I am to take his point, made above, at face, he wants to basically state it is absurd to attribute these heinous acts to his religion as it would be absurd to attribute math and so on to his religion.

        Or is he trying to have his cake and eat it too?

        And if he is saying that stuff is attributable, is he saying that it excuses terrorist actions?

        A really pointless point he made there.

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        OgreRinsako
        1/08/15 1:26pm

        Rinasko, he's actually making the point you're making. It's silly to ascribe the invention of algebra to all Muslims or Islamic people, just as it's sill to ascribe terrorist intent to all Muslims or Islamic people.

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      blackintrovertTaylor Berman
      1/08/15 1:06pm

      If Don Lemon weren't openly gay, he would've had a spot on Fox News by now because that's where he belongs.

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        Jerry-Netherlandblackintrovert
        1/08/15 1:15pm

        That hasn't stopped Shepard Smith.

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        JerkBeastDeluxeJerry-Netherland
        1/08/15 1:20pm

        Shepard Smith is gay for God. Biiiiiiiiiig difference.

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      SpencerTaylor Berman
      1/08/15 12:36pm
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        New Year New EuphemismsTaylor Berman
        1/08/15 12:41pm

        Don Lemon is terrible but this sentence is worse.

        I said that obviously these 16 percent of people support the ideology, but again, I don't think that would necessarily extrapolate to supporting of killing of innocent people."

        How exactly do you not extrapolate that supporters of ISIS like the killing of innocent people? That's what ISIS does and if you support them then you support the killing of innocent people.

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          2SquaredTaylor Berman
          1/08/15 12:35pm

          What the hell is wrong with these people? I've never seen any of these asshats ask a Christian White man if he supported The KKK. Muslims are people too and most people do not condone the actions of those terrorists.

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            secularmartyr2Squared
            1/08/15 12:44pm

            Maybe because the KKK is strictly an American phenomenon. Global Jihadism spreads to wherever there are Muslims.

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            2Squaredsecularmartyr
            1/08/15 1:08pm

            White supremacists groups are global and I don't know what the KKK being an American group has to do with white men not having to decry KKK members' acts of terrorism.

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          KarenDelaneyWalkerTaylor Berman
          1/08/15 12:32pm

          This is how I feel everytime I watch Don Lemon:

          GIF
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