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    benjaminalloverMatt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:45am

    As much as we all love AutoZone and Doritos, hysterically sobbing at the sight of the former being burned and the latter being looted is a tad over the top. A clip of bullets was unloaded into an unarmed black boy and then his killer was ushered through some sort of cop-loving kangaroo court, after all. Some charred car refreshers are hardly something to get worked up about in moments like these.

    YES. I am so with you right here. I tried and failed to make this point yesterday; it's not pro-looting to acknowledge that the looting IS NOT the tragedy, the MURDER WAS.

    According to Becker, punishing bad behavior increases the costs of engaging in such behavior and thereby reduces the amount of it. This is the underlying theory of most criminal justice schemes. Rioting that occurs in response to gross police misconduct and criminal system abuses imposes costs on doing those things.

    But are the riots really punishing the police departments? Seems to me that they are going a long way to justifying the absurd military equipment they've invested in instead of community policing. It seems that the owners of businesses in the black neighborhoods (the white ones were protected by police) who are punished most directly by the looting.

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      _Redshirtbenjaminallover
      11/26/14 9:56am

      But are the riots really punishing the police departments? Seems to me that they are going a long way to justifying the absurd military equipment they've invested in instead of community policing.


      Bruenig isn't making actually making a serious argument here. To the extent that this is about anything at all, it's about neoliberalism, not police violence.

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      benjaminallover_Redshirt
      11/26/14 10:02am

      Hmm. I take it at face value, although I think he makes more of a case for the moral value of riots than he does for the economic value of them. After all, the economic aspect is only a means to an end, a means to disincentivize police officers from executing citizens.

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    EatTheCheeseNicholsonMatt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:40am

    Gary Becker also said that the free market would solve racism. As brilliant as he was as a theorist, he was also straight up wrong a lot of the time.

    Still, thanks for bringing something against that Fox News "Ferguson riots have cost taxpayers X amount" blurb that came up during the announcement. Disgusting.

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      benjaminalloverEatTheCheeseNicholson
      11/26/14 9:49am

      It implies the related question of what another murdered black boy costs society.

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      EatTheCheeseNicholsonbenjaminallover
      11/26/14 9:55am

      Oy, that's a whole other can of worms. This uses DOT figures, which I think estimate the value of human life based on marginal changes in salary compared to job risk.

      Which is absolutely insane for any life, much less a murdered minority's life

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    Dave Matt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:42am

    Wow. Really? This is the argument you want to make? That massive civil unrest, property loss and risk to human life make good sense, economically? Even I, whose sympathies lie very closely with the people doing the actual rioting and might BE one of them in their shoes, wouldn't dare make this case. The answer to a wrong is never a second wrong. Ever.

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      RappingNinjaDave
      11/26/14 9:54am

      What is a second "wrong" though? Would it be wrong, for example, to make someone experience the exact crime that they perpetrated reflected back on themselves? Some people say that's "revenge" and wrong: I say that it's natural, obvious justice that forces people to consider empathy for their fellow man.

      As Obi-Wan told us, you'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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      Dave RappingNinja
      11/26/14 10:01am

      I think that we as a society have a duty to find better ways to address wrongs. I am not naive, I know history and how actions such as these effected the society as a whole. I just can't bring myself to stand in a public venue and argue that riots are a public good. Again, not calling the author anything or even saying he is WRONG, just surprised he said it.

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    Misteaks were madeMatt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:51am

    Here's who benefits economically:

    1. The Police. OT out the wazoo.

    2. Contractors repairing the damage left in the wake.

    3. Insurance companies charging higher rates for those forced to use said insurance for unnecessary damages/lost/destroyed merchandise.

    4. Those who thought that free case of Budweiser or Samsung flat screen was somehow honoring Micheal Brown's memory.

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      Group B-raaaaaaaaaap!Misteaks were made
      11/26/14 10:33am

      I look forward to the inevitable follow up piece, "Terrorism and the Positive 10-Year Outlook for the Housing Market."

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    PeteRRMatt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:42am

    Who knew that the Democrat Obama supporter McCulloch was a Klansman? Of course historically, the Klan like all of the southern racist power structure was composed almost exclusively of Democrats.

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      bleachoncePeteRR
      11/26/14 9:48am

      Go back to Twitchy, Ben Shapiro. You can't sit with us.

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      PeteRRbleachonce
      11/26/14 9:50am

      I was going for a vox-splaining vibe actually, but thanks.

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    TheSlySoulMatt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:41am

    Great article that made me think. My main issue is that rioting is targeting the wrong people. At least with the Boston Tea Party, they were destroying the thing that was being taxed so high.

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      thejakemanTheSlySoul
      11/26/14 10:48am

      Which hurt, you know, the boston tea sellers that paid for it to be shipped across the ocean.

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    athought123Matt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:50am

    This is quite stretching the facts. I don't agree that riots are good for economic reasons. I do, however think that these rioters are exercising their 2nd amendment right, and are the only ones to have used their 2nd amendment rights correctly.

    Let me explain. 2nd amendment gives individuals the right to bear arms to protect against a tyrannical government. The protesters see the failing to indict Wilson as a tyranny. We all know how police treats minorities. And yet, there's no recourse. Because police is rarely held accountable to the will of people they serve. They are not elected, as the police commissioner are often appointed by the mayor. Prosecutors are elected officials often, but you can't trust the local prosecutors, who work together with the police on daily basis to treat the case with objectivity. Sure it's ultimately upto the grand jury to decide on whether to indict or not, and jury of 12 to convict, but the prosecutor has the ability to be either 1) not aggressive in pressing charges 2) not aggressive in investigating and 3) withhold evidence from the grand jury. We have seen all 3 in the past, and there's no telling that it did not happen in Ferguson this time. That said, I believe there should be a special prosecutor that handles police shooting. Make every police shooting a federal case so there is no more of this comfortable relationship between police accused of falsely shooting a civilian and the prosecutor on the case.

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      yannleeiathought123
      11/26/14 10:31am

      seriously? 2nd amendment? Yes clearly autozones are local headquarters of tyrannical oppression.

      No, violence against private businesses is not standing up to tyranny. Not even close

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      athought123yannleei
      11/26/14 10:53am

      Does it matter? It's not like our forefathers only set ablaze the government buildings of the tyrannical British. If that was the case, those boxes of tea would never have been thrown into the Boston harbor.

      I think this is obligatory:

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    GutbloomMatt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:51am

    As an Irish-American, I'd say that our draft riots were largely successful, economically. The much feared labor competition from emancipated slaves never materialized because we made it clear that we were willing to kill black people, destroy their businesses, and go uptown and slit some throats. We set fire to City Hall, cut telegraph lines, and attacked the New York Times. Pfffft, Lincoln Tunnel. When the someone cuts the Internet connection of the New York Post let me know.

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      scorinalGutbloom
      11/26/14 10:18am

      When the someone cuts the Internet connection of the New York Post let me know.

      Now _THAT_ is a good idea.

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    depentMatt Bruenig
    11/26/14 10:19am

    Here's a way better version of this argument:

    http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/in-defe…

    "The mystifying ideological claim that looting is violent and non-political is one that has been carefully produced by the ruling class because it is precisely the violent maintenance of property which is both the basis and end of their power. Looting is extremely dangerous to the rich (and most white people) because it reveals, with an immediacy that has to be moralized away, that the idea of private property is just that: an idea, a tenuous and contingent structure of consent, backed up by the lethal force of the state."

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      pdxwhydepent
      11/26/14 10:42am

      Thank you.

      If there is anything out this horrid shitstorm of racism, malevolence and incompetence is that many people are seriously rethinking how the media covers things and names actions. I am going to read the article and share it.

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    PodMatt Bruenig
    11/26/14 9:46am

    I'd love for you to tell this to the business owners and people who no longer have jobs because their workplace has been burned to the ground. I get your theory, but at the same time, torching businesses does nothing. The rioters have no backbone. They aren't assaulting private residences since they know Missouri is a (rightfully-so) shall-issue state and they will be shot if they cross private property lines. As they should be. If my city was subject to rioting, I would have no qualms about shooting rioters who invaded my property. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    Also, they won't risk direct assaults on police property, because the police will shoot them.

    The rioters are typical Millenial grandstanders. All show, and no go. They could actually benefit from reading your article, but since literacy is beyond their skillset, I doubt they will.

    The rioters are cowards and deserve everything they get.

    Notice I said rioters and not "protestors". I support people's right to protest and assemble. Stomp around and yell all you want. If I believe in your cause, I'll be right out there next to you. Hell, even if I don't like your cause, I'll defend your right to protest. Stomp away - we have freedom in this country and we need to utilize it more often. But the minute you cross someone's property line or threaten their safety, all bets are off, and you lose my support.

    I'm sure my post will be condemned to gray-land but whatever.

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