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LordBurleighHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:00pm

if our nation ever hopes to be a truly fair representative democracy

Has it ever?

I don't even mean that flippantly. Really: has it ever?
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  Bull MooseLordBurleigh
  9/12/14 12:02pm
  Yes, it has.
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  Hamilton NolanLordBurleigh
  9/12/14 12:02pm
  I have that hope. So I'll say yes.
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KittensAndUnicorns_v2_The UprisingHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:09pm
how do we fix our diet though?

with a republican controlled congress ( senate is still up for grabs depending on which blogs you ask), that won't even pass a bill to limit spending, how do ordinary citizens begin a push? wouldn't it have to be the republican voters who have to push for this, so that their congressman vote accordingly? ( in a perfect world, of course). thing is, i don't think republican voters are against limiting campaign finance since it helps the republican party so much.
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  Hamilton NolanKittensAndUnicorns_v2_The Uprising
  9/12/14 12:13pm
  1. Educate and persuade the public, as with any political issue.
  
  2. If you're looking for something immediate, Larry Lessig has a PAC designed to elect candidates who will support campaign finance reform, and I'm sure he would appreciate any and all support.
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  KittensAndUnicorns_v2_The UprisingKittensAndUnicorns_v2_The Uprising
  9/12/14 12:18pm
  as per Ham No,
  
  elect candidates that want campaign finance reform !
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kamla deviHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:03pm
Exactly this.

In a perfect, fair world, the government would fund primaries, and everyone could vote on a national fucking voting day (a national holiday where even the poors don't have to work) on any number of candidates. The candidates that received the most popular vote of this primary would then each be given an equal amount of money from the government (yes your fucking taxes, boohoo how do you think you manage to drive to work everyday?) to stage their campaigns.

Until then we have that you're basically voting for your favorite corporation - or just Walmart no matter what.
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  LordBurleighkamla devi
  9/12/14 12:07pm
  Exactly: do you prefer Sam Walton or the Koch brothers this time around?
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  kamla deviLordBurleigh
  9/12/14 12:08pm
  In some cases they both donate to both candidates. Never believe a word that comes out of Schumer's mouth.
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Holden_McGroinHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:13pm
How bout some fucking term limits too. As long as we have career politicians then they will have no motivation to want to do anything.
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  JonathanSwiftHolden_McGroin
  9/12/14 12:21pm
  YES - Term limits - YES 100X yes
  
  And the gerrymandering thing too - but please lets not have any more of these "how dare the Republicans redraw these lines" stories from the Gawker propaganda dept
  
  As of the Dems hadn't drawn the earlier, just as fucked up, lines
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  crookedEHolden_McGroin
  9/12/14 12:23pm
  The problem with career politicians is not how long they have been in office, but who they have been serving while there. Term limits won't fix that, and could actually take away peoples' right to keep any decent elected official who might (against all odds) make it into office.
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c'est-a-direHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:15pm
Federally funded campaigns or capped spending, campaigns can only speak about their own platforms (no attack ads), 3rd party ads can only include issues not names/parties/etc. and are only permitted because there are strictly enforced rules on separation from the campaign. While we're at it: make voting day a national holiday, expand early and remote voting, and consider incentivizing it with the old American standard the tax credit.
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  Googolflexc'est-a-dire
  9/12/14 2:07pm
  Soooo, not a fan of the First Amendment, eh?
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  c'est-a-direGoogolflex
  9/12/14 2:09pm
  The First Amendment has been limited in pursuit of the public good before.
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theodorebloatHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:17pm
All of the amendments proposed so far would give Congress very broad powers to restrict political speech and election spending of all kinds, at all scales. The one Bernie Sanders has pushed would give this power to states and, if the states choose, to local municipalities. Even local city council incumbents could vote to restrict the ability of people to campaign against them.

It is hard and possibly impossible to codify in law an "overturn" of Citizen's United without severely limiting the First Amendment for everyone. If the right to regulate spending on political speech is constructed too narrowly, the "big money" will have no trouble evading the regulation. If the regulation is broad enough to hamper the big money, it severely infringes on individual rights.

Some other answer is needed to reduce the influence of big money electioneering spending. Perhaps public financing of elections. Perhaps, simply, better political organizing by dissenters.

But the proposed amendments, all of them so far, have been very bad news. Just because the GOP (or whoever) is agin' 'em doesn't mean they're automatically good.

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cepalgHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:04pm
Hm. On the one hand, clear and present danger to the democratic process and the good governance to this country. On the other hand, an opportunity for the ultra-rich to make themselves even richer by using congressmen and senators as finger-puppets.

Perhaps we can compromise, and the ultra-rich can only get to make, say, 3/4 of the legislation.
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DollP@rtsHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:08pm
John Adams once said that Democracy never lasts long and that there has never been a democracy that didn't commit suicide in the end. If you thumb through the annuals of the history of civilized humans, you can see the charred corpses of past democracies and republics. They either descended into anarchy or ascended (for good or for ill) into empires. We're seeing the latter. So put on your tunic and have some wine! And perhaps your spawn (or the spawn of your spawn) will be lucky enough to observe Rome 2.0.
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  CapitalistWarMachineDollP@rts
  9/12/14 12:40pm
  John Adams said a *lot* of things. They weren't always right.
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toothpetardHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:06pm
But if our Corporate Citizens don't feel safe & free here & flee to find refuge where their liberties are secure, trickle down would stop!
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  pkmeextoothpetard
  9/12/14 12:08pm
  Good! I have enough piss soaked clothes.
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  kamla devitoothpetard
  9/12/14 12:09pm
  I'm tired of being peed on, frankly.
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MaybelandHamilton Nolan
9/12/14 12:15pm
If you don't feel like waiting for the Senate to do something go about this, you can go to Wolf-PAC's website a group that is dedicated to doing this by having the states call for a Constitution Convention of this issue.

A few states have already signed on most notably California.

You can find out more at Wolf-Pac or The Young Turks
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