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    RealAmurricanHamilton Nolan
    7/31/14 3:05pm

    This already worked. Portugal decriminalized all drugs — you don't get sent to jail, you're given help with rehab. Overall drug use, along with crime, has gone down.

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      gilbertkittensHamilton Nolan
      7/31/14 3:10pm

      Anybody who disagrees with this is a fucking idiot.

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        Cannikin_MK3Hamilton Nolan
        7/31/14 3:13pm

        You make some good points but I still can't get on board with the "all drugs should be legal platform". The most important reason why is because legalizing cocaine and heroin isn't going to legitimize the production process in foreign countries like Colombia and Afghanistan and will probably make them even more unstable. Also, I don't see how you can make all drugs recreationally legal and still keep harmful and deadly snake oils illegal.

        We can and should remove the drug addicts from the criminal justice system without just throwing up our hands and saying, "You're an adult. Do whatever you want."

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          denny_the_destroyerCannikin_MK3
          7/31/14 3:27pm

          Yes, heaven forbid we treat people like adults and let them do what they want.

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          Clamilton BrolanCannikin_MK3
          7/31/14 3:32pm

          The free market will take care of your first issue. Regulation will take care of the second.

          First, requiring Colorado's pot growers to operate openly and transparently has had a demonstrable impact on cartels, &c ability to profit from marijuana production and import. Second, we sell poisons that can get you high by the barrel... one man's 'snake oil' is another man's glue. Proper labeling of psychoactive chemicals as dangerous and not appropriate for human consumption would attend any drug regulation effort.

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        HubcapJennyHamilton Nolan
        7/31/14 3:29pm

        I think profiting off strongly addictive & harmful substances is deplorable and maybe should remain illegal. (Otherwise, why sell anything else?) But it shouldn't be illegal to be addicted. Rehab for the users, strong regulation and enforcement for the sellers.

        I think the biggest killer for heavy drug users is poverty and the dangerous stuff they have to do to feed their addictions.

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          Jerry-NetherlandHubcapJenny
          7/31/14 4:26pm

          So you suggest criminalizing distilleries and jailing every salesman working for InBev (the beer conglomerate), Brown-Foreman (the bourbon cartel), Seagram's, etc.? Because those companies make tremendous profits off of a highly addictive substance.

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          HubcapJennyJerry-Netherland
          7/31/14 4:32pm

          I wouldn't say alcohol is highly addictive. For a small portion of drinkers, it is addictive, but for many others, it isn't, which is rather unlike cocaine or opiates.

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        Chris WayneHamilton Nolan
        7/31/14 3:13pm

        A good argument. There definitely seems some drugs that would be easier than other for people to get behind when it comes to legalization. Most people can get behind legalizing weed, as it is considered one of the more mundane drugs. When you get into some of the harder stuff, I think folks start to get a bit more squeamish.

        Legalizing stuff Crack, heroin, and especially methamphetamine, might be a tough pill for the American public to swallow. As you pointed out, we tend to like having a morally superior standpoint for advocating for the drugs we "like" or think are "good". I'd love to see a real debate on the issue without all the moral posturing.

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          TheJuiceShouldBeLooseChris Wayne
          7/31/14 3:30pm

          Alot of the decision on what to legalize is addictiveness and impact on the individual with daily or long-term use. Crystal Meth, Heroin and Crack are the three troublesome ones (The effects last a long time per use, save Crack, and they have a higher addiction rate and really can turn your life upside down, fast).

          Coke, while more addictive than marijuana, is less addictive than the others and only 'works' for short periods of time. Psychedelics hit you hard, but not nearly as addictive and are more of a 'once in awhile' thing.

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          Chris WayneTheJuiceShouldBeLoose
          7/31/14 3:42pm

          Just from my own personal experience, most of the minor drug possession charges that clog the justice system are those drugs (now it's mostly meth). Keep those illegal and you don't do much to solve the problem. Make them legal, then you are potentially creating more addicts and/or you get blamed for any crazy shit they do while high or trying to get high.

          Either way, locking them up doesn't really seem to be making much of a difference, other than putting a shitload of taxpayer money in the pockets of the people who run private prisons .

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        Jerry-NetherlandHamilton Nolan
        7/31/14 4:20pm

        Hamilton: This is one of your finest pieces; succinct, to the point, and reasonable. I am in complete accord with you on this matter, and have been both advocating legalization and watching the ravages of the "War on Drugs" (Orwellian: should be "War on Drug Users") to society for 30 years.

        I took the time to read the reports you linked, and they are informative but lack the distinct breakdown (though allude to it) that points out how much higher the drug-related mortality rate is from Rx Opioids than from "illegal drugs" . The annual number of deaths from cocaine, for instance, is 1/30th the number of deaths from just side effects of Rx drugs (in 2010, roughly 4,600 : 132,000). And that isn't the addictive Rx drugs - it's things like antibiotics, anti-arthritics, anti-inflammatories, antidepressants, neuro-actives, etc.!

        This is not to say that drug abuse (the non-lethal abuse) is not a serious medical and sociological problem. So, much of the problem is related to the illegality itself (particularly the violence involved inherently in any black market) and family discord and economic decline - which is no more or less likely with an alcoholic in the house. But as study after study has proved, the number of users who have a problem addiction (rather than an occasional recreational habit) is fairly small - again, with substances that are the most likely to slide users from occasional use to life-altering chronic abuse are still Tobacco and Alcohol; followed by meth and crack. The rest (cocaine, heroin, acid, ecstasy, etc) morph into the danger level at only a fractional rate of the legal ones. The Rx "legal" opiates and opioids are very high on the addictablilty scale.

        While it's rather old now, I highly recommend "Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do" (Peter McWilliams, 1993) for the long-form argument against drug (and other vice) laws.

        Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a… Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a… Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity…

        Amazon.com

        Buy now 3 readers bought this

        Again, well done, HamNo.

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          CeeSquaredHamilton Nolan
          7/31/14 3:18pm

          Here here, Ham No!

          This is actually what I consider to be one of the most important domestic policy issues of our time, yet it basically gets no press coverage and anyone who has ever asserted that all drugs should be legalized could easily recount the side-long glances from other people who think you're suddenly a mad man. It is almost mind-boggling to me how just exposure to a few simple facts (such as you listed) and a moment of reflection on the moral and ethical consequences of drug prohibition forces one to conclude our country has been complicit in a gross miscarriage of fairness and justice for nearly a century. We should all be ashamed of the War on Drugs.

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            lankypankyHamilton Nolan
            7/31/14 3:18pm

            One of the first things I ever encountered about legalizing drugs was Peter McWilliams' Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Society. I don't know if it would hold up if I reread it now as an adult rather than a teenager, but I do actually remember looking up the author and being horrified to discover how he'd died: He apparently asphyxiated on his own vomit, after he quit smoking medical marijuana. Because his mother and brother had put up the mortgage for their houses to bail him out of jail for charges related to his smoking marijuana for suppressing his nausea.

            Instantly, all of the D.A.R.E. program was totally wasted on me.

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              Thisismyname111lankypanky
              7/31/14 3:31pm

              Me and three other kids were selected to read their dare graduation essays on stage at DARE graduation (now that I wrote those words they seem insane) I've smoked with all of them at some point.

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              Jerry-Netherlandlankypanky
              7/31/14 5:11pm

              Peter McWilliams was arrested and got high bail at a time when he was smoking pot to counteract the side effects of AIDS-related non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma (from which he later died). I have no doubt he was put through the legal persecution precisely because of his book, published three years earlier. Tragic.

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            elspethsHamilton Nolan
            7/31/14 3:34pm

            First, let me say that I love this post. It is intelligent and well spoken, so kudos to you on that. Now I am going to agree and disagree with you.

            First, there is a demonstrable difference between marijuana and other schedule 1 substances. The difference is the threat to the public interest. Drugs like cocain, methamphetamine, and PCP present a very real and pressing public risk. These drugs make their users unstable, violent, and immune to pain. An indisputable responsibility of our law enforcement is the safety and security of society. That is why there most assuredly is a difference between marijuana and these drugs.

            2. That being said, you have made an excellent point about the legal response to drug abuse, and I agree completely. Portugal has seen excellent progress in rehabilitation instead of incarceration. The response in this country is backwards. After a drug crime, instead of getting you the help you need to improve your life you are jailed. Even after "paying your debt to society" you are burdened with a record that prevents all but the most menial jobs and denied school aid to help achieve a new career with a salary you can live on. I am a firm proponent of rehabilitation.

            Again, thank you for the post. Very thought provoking.

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              ThronesNerdDawgelspeths
              7/31/14 4:31pm

              Some good points, this is not an attack on you or your oppinion but its obvious you havent done some of the drugs in question. PCP does not leave you immume to pain, that is a myth. It makes you see the world almost in the third person and is very wierd kind of an out of body experience. There is very little euphoria and ultimately it is not the coolest drug out there. Thats why no one does it. Cocaine just makes you tell innane stories and get excited about stuff, also makes you feel awesome. Gives the worst hangovers ever though (and dont some ass hat come on here and suggest im not getting good stuff or some other super cool bro response) never done meth but people who do it look like shit so i probably wont try it. my point is that not everyone on drugs tries to eat a homeless mans face off in broad day light.

              I agree that letting everyone loose in society drugged up on coke and acid would be bad for everyone, that being said. Would that really happen? I heard an anecdote in which a this very argument took place in a town hall. Those opposed to the idea of legalization made an allusion to this very argument. A proponent of the idea then asked "if heroin was legal tommorrow, would any of you actually go and buy it?" obviously no hands went up. Also, Ive seen people do outragously dumb wrecklass and down right sadistic shit while drunk. So im not worried about what more drugs would do to people really.

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              elspethsThronesNerdDawg
              7/31/14 4:46pm

              I never get offended at a well thought and intelligent argument.

              I can only speak from the studies I can access, which states that Crack/cocaine results in an increase of violent crime, however it is interesting to note that much of this crime could be attributed to dealers, not users. So point for you there. Methamphetamines are positively correlated with an increase in violent behavior, although there is insufficient research to establish causality. I was incorrect about PCP causing violent crime, however it has been known to decrease perceived pain and alter stimuli.

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            MWarnerMHamilton Nolan
            7/31/14 4:55pm

            But when I was a kid the lady from D.A.R.E. who came to my school said that if I smoked pot I would immediately want to try every other drug too and by the end of the week I'd be addicted to crack and stealing TV's and joining the crips to feed my addiction. Are you telling me she was LYING?!?!??

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