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    retrogirlMark Shrayber
    7/21/14 5:02pm

    Mark, maybe don't victim blame?

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      yayloretrogirl
      7/21/14 5:08pm

      Oh come on. The guy said "I will shoot you if you don't give me the phone" and she didn't give him the phone. She could have given him the phone. Just give him the damn phone!

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      Mark Shrayberretrogirl
      7/21/14 5:09pm

      My intention wasn't to blame the victim. It was to point out that in a dangerous situation such as this the phone becomes less important than physical safety.

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    GunshineAndPainbowsMark Shrayber
    7/21/14 5:53pm

    I'm not sure that all the cries of "victim blaming!" are on point here... this isn't quite like rape culture, where the perpetrators of rape are regularly protected, defended or even endorsed whereas the victim is shamed and silenced; thus allowing the violence against women to continue unchecked.

    We don't live in a society where men grow up thinking women should be shot in the head for refusing to give them electronics when they demand them, and given free passes when they do shoot them. No one jumps to the defense of armed robbers, justifying their behavior. We don't have national conversations about suburbanites "demonizing urban behavior" (see feminists demonizing male sexuality), and that people deserve what they get if they walk down streets with electronics on their person, or that the mugger was doing God's work by taking their possessions and they should try to make the best out of the situation (see women should consider babies conceived by rape as a gift from God). Other would-be-robbers are not going to read this story and feel emboldened by a culture that looks the other way and does nothing for victims of armed robbery and their communities.

    This woman made a stupid decision, she played chicken with an armed robber... she literally chose "you can pry this phone from my cold, dead hands". Given that he actually shot her, and then tried to chase her down... it's a miracle that she's still alive. As another commenter said:

    ... but the guy was getting the phone regardless. It's not like the choice was between giving up her phone OR getting shot in the head (or whatever other violence) and keeping her phone.

    This wasn't a game of "what would you rather do..." It was, you are going to do this whether you want to or not. She wasn't going to keep the contacts, access to entertainment, shopping, etc. either way.

    Even if she thought the guy would shoot her regardless of whether she gave up the phone or not, why wouldn't she jump on the choice that gave her the greatest chance for survival? I think the message "choose your life over your smart phone" is appropriate here. Mark's not endorsing armed robbery by saying so, he's not making excuses for the mugger.

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      SWPhillipGunshineAndPainbows
      7/21/14 6:12pm

      Mark's tone was flippant and mocking. And she is a victim of a crime so the phrase seems fair. One of the elements of feminism I have been challenged to inventory is how we bias and project expectations on victims in various situations, from rape victims to domestic abuse. All too often we assume what is best without a full understanding the full context. In this case my education and humanity informs me to honor the choice she made and investigate how it may be rational. Resistance comes in a myriad of forms and presents itself in interesting ways. I mean at what point do we honor people who decide enough is enough or who, as noted in this situation, read body language in way that leads them to believe shooting is a likely outcome no matter her choice?

      Simply put....don't mock her and judge her when we don't have all of the information.

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      retrogirlGunshineAndPainbows
      7/21/14 6:35pm

      You make a good point about mugging culture. That is not a thing. However victim blaming is a thing, and if you read these comments, lots and lots of people are eagerly doing it. I don't think Jezebel should be contributing to that.

      As I said to Mark directly, I believe him when he says that wasn't his intention. But that is what occurred. People are taking great pleasure in mocking a woman who was robbed and shot in the head. That's twisted shit.

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    SinglestickMark Shrayber
    7/21/14 6:47pm

    Also, getting down to brass tacks, are you saying that armed robbery is no big thing, as long as the robber doesn't shoot anyone because, hey, it's just property? Any fear or distress caused by having a loaded weapon pointed at you is small beer?

    Or maybe no one should leave home with any gadget worth more than, say, $50, and that otherwise they are fair game?

    Or that armed robbery is just a fact of life, and we should adjust to it?

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      Mark ShrayberSinglestick
      7/21/14 6:55pm

      No, I'm saying that if a mugger came at me with a weapon and told me to hand over my phone I would do it. Even if I didn't know if the mugger would shoot me regardless I would want to try to tip the scales in my favor. I would absolutely be terrified and angry and about five hundred other feelings. I am very attached to my property and am anxious about having my phone stolen so I understand her point of view.

      All of the training (and reading I've done) I've had on this kind of issue has always been the same: Just give them what they want if you are an average citizen without specialized training. It would absolutely be a big deal.

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    thesporkgirlMark Shrayber
    7/21/14 5:05pm

    the tone here is kind of flippant for a story about someone getting shot in the head.

    people's mobile devices are increasingly their only tool to conduct business, obtain/retain employment, their entire access to entertainment, more affordable shopping, etc. it's a lot more than just having to re-add phone numbers.

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      ultravisitor2000thesporkgirl
      7/21/14 5:08pm

      the tone here is kind of flippant for a story about someone getting shot in the head.

      The guy told her he would shoot her if she didn't give up her phone. She let him shoot her. That was the choice she made.

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    rocketsparkleMark Shrayber
    7/21/14 9:57pm

    Fun reference here for you guys arguing over whether she did the right thing.

    A friend of mine left work at a Philly hospital, went to get chinese food with his best friend. They walked back to their home a few blocks away and were accosted by 2 robbers. My friend handed over his wallet, his keys to his car, his phone, his food and his jewelry. One of the robbers was satisfied and walked away, the other went to leave and then turned around and shot my friend point blank in the face. Sometimes you get shot no matter what you do because the one holding the gun wanted to feel the power of pulling the trigger.

    This is not a logical situation. Often times these guys don't actually WANT to shoot you when they rob you, they would rather risk the robbery charge over murder, however some of them... they want to shoot and intend to shoot. They know in their hearts they brought the gun out to use it. So unless you have been there, please out of respect for the people who lose their lives trying to decide what to do when there's only 10 seconds and a gun in their face... stop and sit down and be quiet. My friend did what you all said he should have and lost his life anyway.

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      MeowthrandirMark Shrayber
      7/21/14 5:12pm

      Was a phone really worth shooting a woman in the head? That's the question you should have asked.

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        Pink is the new catMark Shrayber
        7/21/14 5:08pm

        Fuck you, Mark, for blaming this woman. I guess you missed the part where she said:

        "Get a job. I work hard for my stuff," added Courtney. "The look in his eye, if I would have given him the phone, he would have shot me anyway."

        I guess you also missed the part where he chased her down after she ran and tried to force his way into her friend's apartment. AFTER HE HAD ALREADY SHOT HER!

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          ultravisitor2000Mark Shrayber
          7/21/14 5:03pm

          I will never understand why people do stupid things just to keep their phones. Jump down onto the subway tracks? Refuse to give it up in a mugging? CROUCH DOWN AND LET SOMEONE SHOOT YOU? WTF is wrong with you people?

          There's a solution. It's called insurance.

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            nopunin10didultravisitor2000
            7/21/14 5:06pm

            The real solution is for people to stop doing the mugging in the first place, but insurance is a reasonable secondary option.

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            CHIEF QUEEFultravisitor2000
            7/21/14 5:13pm

            Yeah, I don't really understand the crouching down part. If you have time to get down and wait for him to shoot you, you also have time to...oh, I dunno, RUN LIKE THE WIND?

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          Tastycakes2Mark Shrayber
          7/21/14 5:12pm

          I'm pretty sure if someone went through the effort of mugging me and I handed over my flip phone from 2009, they would shoot me out of sheer annoyance.

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            rocketsparkleTastycakes2
            7/21/14 10:14pm

            That is the first funny thing I have read on this thread.

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          YeshaMark Shrayber
          7/21/14 5:15pm

          I'd rather be a robbery victim..instead of a shooting victim...

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            rocketsparkleYesha
            7/21/14 10:09pm

            You are simplistically assuming that Courtney wasn't about to be both. Often times armed robbery ends in murder too.

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