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elgordo47Hamilton Nolan
5/21/14 1:09pm
I've worked for a few US companies and assisted with initial setup in Canada more than once over the past 20 years. The one consistent failing is Americans can't wrap their heads around the fact that Canada and in particular Canadian consumers are NOT Americans. Just because it worked state-side doesn't mean a carbon copy works here. And the absolutely stubborn reluctance to recognize that seems to be a particularly American business liability (ie. European firms actually hire local consultants to learn about the country they hope to do business in).
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  PlantinMoretuselgordo47
  5/21/14 1:24pm
  In my (Canadian) university program, there is one American student. He makes the mistake of assuming that there are no differences between Canadians and Americans all the time. When he is faced with a true difference, he assumes that Canadians have just made an unfortunate mistake and want to follow the American example, which he then explains to us in detail (until someone finally shuts him up). He's completely genuine about it. He really thinks he is being helpful. It's kind of amazing, when it isn't really annoying.
  
  But it's the kiss of death in business.
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  jonathan1245elgordo47
  5/21/14 2:29pm
  I hear this repeatedly as a Canadian, and I'm absolutely not convinced this is true. If you step into a Canadian Wal-Mart, the general experience is essentially the same as the American ones I've visited. Sure, there are different brands and slightly different product selections, but overall, it's the same. And yet it's super successful here. Target's problems don't have anything to do with providing a sufficient level of "Canadian-ness", which consumers don't really care about.
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Daniel KaszorHamilton Nolan
5/21/14 1:01pm
Something that I think is missing out on here is the question of why Target is successful in the United States in the first place. To a large extent, it actually isn't the experience you have there but the perception of the experience.

Basically Target is Walmart for people who don't want to admit that they shop at Walmart.

Shopping at Walmart means that you're poor. No one wants to think that they're poor. So they shop at Target instead. That just means they're thrifty.

When Target came into Canada, the first thing they did was to take over more than a hundred Zellers locations. For those not in Canada, Zellers is essentially Walmart only more crappy. Walmart might be for poor people, but they are generally clean and well stocked. Zellers stores often weren't.

So, Target moves into all of these Zellers stores and fumbles out of the gate. They are no longer "Walmart for people who don't want to shop at Walmart" but are "Zellars but not as well stocked and more expensive."

When it's just as shameful to go to Target as it is to go to Walmart, you should at least go to the place that's run well.
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  XyloDaniel Kaszor
  5/21/14 1:24pm
  Yeah, nailed it, but I still miss Zellers. There was a lot of cheap good quality stuff that sustained me (underwear, flannel shirts, flannel-lined work pants, t-shirts, wool tights) through my university years, including the lunch counter in Peterborough, Ontario.
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  BananaPatchKidsDaniel Kaszor
  5/21/14 1:55pm
  I haven't been in WalMart many times, I can count the numjber of visits I've made to that shit-hole on one hand, but as I recall Zellers was almost identical to the WalMart experience, but without the touchy feeling smiley face bullshit and claim that prices were lower than they actually are (WalMart prices are only lower because they sell crap). I still haven't visited a Target, and given the treatment of their employees I doubt I ever will. At this point I miss having Zellers as an alternative.
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BigGayHomoIIHamilton Nolan
5/21/14 2:45pm
Ok, so I am going to play devil's advocate here.

If it didn't come from/work in the U.S. then it was not a discussion point. To come to a country as large, demographically and regionally different as Canada, and assume that the same "playbook" used in the U.S. would work in Canada was incredible.

Having been in international retail, I know that this perspective isn't about crafting the experience to Canadians, but about inferiority complexes and refusal to submit to the domain of an American company.

The company I worked for had their Canadian division dominated by an attitude where employees simply wanted to operate that division as it's own company for decades, and under new leadership, we used the exact same tactic to force compliance. Market testing over multiple decades concluded that the only part of Canada with a demographic that could be considered culturally different from the U.S. was Quebec and a few surrounding areas.

Consumers needs are every bit the same in Canada as in the U.S., and represent less cultural diversity than the U.S., making the argument completely false. The pretension of Canadians to believe that a U.S. corporation should simply extend them the use of their brand, property, and everything else in exchange for a check sent back to corporate once a month is famous in the retail world, and there is good reason to fight it. At my previous employer, we forced compliance by, amongst other things, sending U.S. associates to work in Canadian stores, and equipped them with the power to make whatever change necessary to achieve uniformity.

Today, I work for an international company based out of California in the technology industry. We employ the same tactics in North America to force compliance. Why? We're an American company with American interests. We make concessions for culturally relevant reasons but, if you think we're going to provide you a job and allow you to change our business to suit your agenda, think again. This is the same practice employed by nearly every single European company as they enter American markets, and our workforce by and large respects, and even celebrates that.

I read a bit of the rest of the post and I'm sure there were other problems however, I think the biggest take away is this:

Canada isn't some wonderland of opposite-American ways. It is, and always will be, the nation that most closely resembles the United States in many, many ways. We have the same roots, and similar history. Your nation's development has been entirely dependent on ours, and for that, you should be thankful. After all, we could have been Mexico.

The cultural variance between American states is so extraordinarily vast in some cases, that the idea that the Target concept couldn't survive in Canada without giving Canadian associates a free pass to do things however they want is, on it's face, egregiously absurd.

If anything, Target's biggest mistake was not being more forceful.
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  commandoclone87BigGayHomoII
  5/21/14 4:34pm
  And there's that good 'ole American arrogance. Thinking that your way is best and everybody else must submit to your will.
  
  It may seem that Canadians are so similar to the States, but that does not mean we are the same. The big difference here being that we've at least have learned a modicum of humility and respect for others and the ability to work with other people without having to dominate them.
  
  It's attitude, not culture that separates us and until American companies can learn that and stop treating us as America 2.0 (surprisingly, this is why Walmart succeeds here), they will continue to fail.
  
  **Note, we also don't like being charged excessive markups for items we can get cheaper somewhere else.
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  MsMulderBigGayHomoII
  5/21/14 5:06pm
  Fuck off
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RussianistHamilton Nolan
5/21/14 12:58pm
What a mess. Even taking planograms into account, even taking into account what sounds like a crap distribution system, I never understand why a store like this would deliberately leave its shelves bare for any noticeable length of time, as if it's a Soviet department store.
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  GregorMendelRussianist
  5/21/14 1:36pm
  All we need now is a line out the door.
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  FredGregorMendel
  5/21/14 1:46pm
  Why do you need a line out when there is no line in?
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bafazane3Hamilton Nolan
5/21/14 12:31pm
Target was a disaster here because they sold the vision of the US stores, but delivered an even junkier version of Zellers. Then there was the data breach...
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  Mok, the Magic Manbafazane3
  5/21/14 1:00pm
  You just can't get rid of that lingering aura of despair that comes with a Zellers.
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  PB from the jarMok, the Magic Man
  1/15/15 2:31pm
  This. 100X.
  
  Anytime I see flickering flourescent lighting, I think of my childhood trips to Zellers.
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DCGutrathHamilton Nolan
5/21/14 12:28pm
The only Target I've been to had two problems. The biggest problem is lack of product. Many areas of the store were half empty. This makes the store look like shit. It also means the company is spending money on space thats being unused.

Next problem is the store seems to be self-shopable, so less staff. If the store was full of product this would be okay, but with all the empty shelves customers end up confused. Is the product in the back? Is it back ordered? The customer doesn't know.
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  Tucker973DCGutrath
  1/15/15 2:12pm
  That's exactly what the person writing in said was one of the management problems.
  
  Stores have scores of empty shelves, endcaps, sections that could easily be filled with inventory on-hand, however Target DOES NOT WANT US TO FILL THEM. The POG (planogram) must be executed 100% flawlessly - even if it means the shelves are empty because what is supposed to be there isn't on hand right now. In other words, we had way too much of things that we didn't need, and not enough of things we did need.
  
  e.g. it looks like shit, because the shelves were empty, because the staff was not allowed to stock the shelves with items that actually were in stock and just sitting in the back of the store. Also, they apparently couldn't keep much of anything in stock, which means Target's supply chain was shit and poorly planned.
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WHYWOULDYOUDOTHATHamilton Nolan
5/21/14 12:24pm
Probably one of the best explinations i've heard.

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  ThidrekrWHYWOULDYOUDOTHAT
  5/21/14 12:44pm
  It is a good, detailed explanation, but I think it's a bit cynical to conclude that "Canadians are morons" for wanting a better shopping experience. Minimum wage is higher, but even the exchange rates he listed showed that the difference isn't as much as you'd think. And multilingual packaging does exist in the U.S.! How many packages have I seen over the years in both English and Spanish—sometimes more? Also, I've seen a lot more bilingual English/French packaging being sold in border states close to Canada, presumably because they want to be better prepared for Canadian distribution. Regardless, I don't think that "special packaging" translates into justification for a 30%+ markup. And in terms of exchange rates, the Canadian dollar has been valued fairly high for a while now, and prices generally go down very, very slowly, but the very minute the exchange rate goes the other way, companies here are often quick to hike prices higher.
  
  But, yes, I do like that he mentioned tariffs and import fees, as those can be particularly byzantine and the Canadian government loves to feign ignorance about these when we talk about price disparities between Canada and the U.S. I know that Pearson Airport in Toronto has some particularly high fees associated with it, which has led to some very expensive plane tickets compared to taking the exact same flight out of Buffalo. A lot of Canadians are now travelling to the U.S. to fly for this exact reason, and the government, as usual, refuses to lower any of its fees to be competitive. The Canadian government has never seen a new tax or fee to slap on consumers that it didn't love.
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  WHYWOULDYOUDOTHATThidrekr
  5/21/14 1:08pm
  If you've seen his other videos, this is pretty normal for Buckley.
  
  He's a bit more harsh than normal people, but i do like that he brought up Expectations of what the canadian people figured target would and how when said expectations weren't met, the outcome.
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cheerful_exgirlfriendHamilton Nolan
5/21/14 12:29pm
I really think that Target Australia should just take over all Targets now.
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  JiminyCricketcheerful_exgirlfriend
  5/21/14 2:57pm
  Haha holy shit...I'm an American living in Australia for quite a while now and I never guessed that it was a separate company! Surprised they got away with that, their marketing/advertising is pretty slick as well so I just assumed it was a global operation.
  
  Please note that we also have "Bed, Bath & Table" (in case anyone was wondering what the 'Beyond' was) and "Wheel & Barrow" instead of "Crate & Barrel" - with pretty much the same branding as the US stores. I don't know how this isn't a Buzzfeed listicle yet.
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  cheerful_exgirlfriendJiminyCricket
  5/21/14 3:00pm
  OMG We need to make it onto Buzzfeed with this!!
  
  Kmart is another Aussie impostor!! I think Australia is just bizzaro America!
  
  I worked at target when my folks went on a trip to Australia and they were so impressed with Target Australia and told me all about it esp how the team members didn't wear red and khaki and I asked my store manager about Target in Australia and he was like "no such thing" so I did some digging :)
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lululaurenHamilton Nolan
5/21/14 12:33pm
My last trip to Target, they were out of 5/6 things that I was looking for (at a store in Halifax, Nova Scotia); I guess this explains why. I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart and sometimes I don't need a whole case of something (a la Costco)... please Target, make this work!
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raincoasterHamilton Nolan
5/21/14 6:03pm
I can't begin to tell you how excited I was when I heard Canada would be getting Target, and that we'd get them out in BC. Target was perceived by Canadians, particularly by my friends who do shopping trips to the US, as having something like the style of H&M at the prices of Walmart.

Was.

Well, it gets here. I'm excited. I go to the store to do some Christmas shopping, expecting to see some great, creative clothing options and housewares that I wouldn't find at the Bay (now owned by Murricans). All at fantastic, less-than-downtown prices! And what do I find?

As the other commenter mentioned, I find so many miles of empty shelves it looks like a Soviet department store. I find a wide variety of creative, affordable clothing choices, but only in the section for little girls, which has four times the floor space of the women's section. I find inadequate signage that makes the store difficult to manage. A food department about the size of a regular suburban kitchen. And the prices are the same as, or in some cases more than, downtown prices.

Okay, the costume jewellery section was pretty okay, but a costume jewellery section that was a third off everything just before Christmas and was still packed full is a section that tells me you haven't had many shoppers through that store.

There's another Target at the mall near where I'm staying now, and I haven't even bothered to poke my head in, although there are several things I need. I'll wait till I can go to Costco with a friend.
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