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    Thunder-LipsHamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 12:40pm

    I knew we would get around to criminalizing poverty.

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      cheerful_exgirlfriendThunder-Lips
      3/06/14 12:48pm

      Since so many view poverty as a choice it's not at all surprising.

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      wyominghippiecheerful_exgirlfriend
      3/06/14 1:13pm

      To make people uncomfortable, I like to draw a parallel to religion. When would Jesus squirm?

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    GregSamsaHamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 12:40pm

    I swear the mariachi band that frequents the one train is stalking me. Pisses me off because I'm usually either going to or coming from work, and the half-hour on the train is my quiet time.

    Then on the A, the damn breakdancers that invariably nearly knock my face off—arrest the ones who are actively annoying if you like. I'm down with that. But leave the panhandlers who just sit quietly at least. Save some room for humanity.

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      Fleur-de-litGregSamsa
      3/06/14 12:54pm

      I don't expect peace and quiet in crowded, public spaces. It saves me a lot of stress.

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      GregSamsaFleur-de-lit
      3/06/14 12:55pm

      Maybe 'quiet time' was the wrong phrase. I do expect to be able to hear my podcasts without much of an issue, even on a crowded train, though.

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    YayForSoupHamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 1:08pm

    I have sympathy for panhandlers, but people who ride their bikes on the sidewalk deserve to be tasered. I'm thrilled to hear they're being arrested.

    Either ride that thing in the street like an adult or walk and use mass transit like everyone else.

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      dannywoodheadYayForSoup
      3/06/14 1:17pm

      Why?

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      YayForSoupdannywoodhead
      3/06/14 1:21pm

      Because it's dangerous.

      You know that awkward moment when someone is walking towards you on the sidewalk and both of you try to step out of each other's way at the same moment and wind up in each other's way again? That interaction ends differently when the other person is on a bicycle.

      ETA: It's also just a pussy move. You're too scared that you'll get hurt while riding your bike in the street, so your solution is to ride your bike on the sidewalk and risk hurting everyone else.

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    IAmNotADamnWriterHamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 12:50pm

    And what about the car window-washers at the tunnel exits? Do we really want to go through more "No Squeegee, No Peace" demonstrations?

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      AgathonIAmNotADamnWriter
      3/06/14 1:07pm

      Do those even exist outside of movies/tv? I've seen panhandlers at big intersections, but never anyone brazen enough to try and clean my window. (I would assume it would be a waste of resources & up the likelihood of police involvement.)

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      IAmNotADamnWriterAgathon
      3/06/14 1:17pm

      It's been years since I've re-entered Manhattan via the Lincoln Tunnel or the Midtown Tunnel by car ... but back in the Giuliani administration, they did indeed exist. And "No Squeegee, No Peace" was a slogan that got a lot of play...

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    OneViewHere3Hamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 12:44pm

    How is cracking down on aggressive panhandling "alienating the public"?? Do you think the the public at large enjoys having homeless bums aggressively hitting them up for money?

    I live in San Francisco and we have a huge problem with aggressive panhandling here. They will harass and yell at you and follow you down the street.

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      AckOneViewHere3
      3/06/14 12:51pm

      I once took some time out from NYC and moved to Seattle. The bums there were way more aggressive than anything I was used to. One guy got so mad when I told him I had no cash on me he told me (paraphrasing because it's been awhile) he started ranting about what kind of person I must be. I kind of lost it on the guy and told him off. Not my proudest moment but the attitude of entitlement on that guy was bullshit.

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      Taint NuttinOneViewHere3
      3/06/14 1:11pm

      How do you really crack down on it though? I stay in the Haight. I am not the most street-smart or passive person, and I've only had one instance in a near decade that necessitated stopping in my tracks and squaring up on somebody- nothing happened, and dude got himself picked up within the hour on something else.

      It becomes a point of where you want to draw the line, and I'm not sure the "system" isn't fine the way it is in this regard. Somebody makes it so you can't ignore them, you call the cops, and you're good. It's not illegal to be an asshole. And as ultimately disappointing as that may be, that's probably a good thing.

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    justthisHamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 12:32pm

    I am not in favor of arresting panhandlers. They have been more aggressive in the last few years, which is both annoying and unfortunate due to the fact that this is what their lives have been reduced to, but anyone who wants them arrested is a monster.

    EDIT for further ranting: I know this can be seen as "ignoring the problem" but after charity, I am more willing to drop a dollar or 5 in the cup of someone just sitting on the corner than a person harassing you for money, food, etc. I am not going to take my wallet out while being accosted, and I saw this as a pretty big guy. I can't imagine how women feel when this happens

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      hiddeninlooksjustthis
      3/06/14 12:39pm

      There is one that I come across a lot who is really scary. I get that it must be very frustrating to be ignored by train cars full of people day in and day out, but making me afraid of you is not a good strategy to convince me to take out my wallet in front of you. (angry guy on the L train anyone?) Should he be arrested? I don't know, but I would really prefer not to see him.

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      justthishiddeninlooks
      3/06/14 12:41pm

      He's not doing anything illegal, so no he should not be arrested. It is big to say "I just don't want to see him." That really cuts to the core of the issue. What do we do? No one wants to see them. No one feels safer. But what do we, as a society, do?

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    Smut KaleidoscopeHamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 12:35pm

    I'm one of those assholes. Give them all SNAP cards and get them out of my ear.

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      allosaurusfragilisSmut Kaleidoscope
      3/06/14 1:03pm

      I used to work at a county-run homeless shelter, administered by the sheriff's office, in a county in FL where these laws worked very well. The only reason that they worked well was that they were backed up by services- as in, people who were arrested for homeless offenses such as panhandling were given the choice of going to the shelter I worked at (no mandatory time, no obligation to stay, with counseling, case management and other services offered) or to go to jail. The county has officers whose partners are social workers whose entire job it is to work with the homeless (not just folks on the street, but also working with families who are living doubled up or in motels, or in cars). The idea is that you can't just outright make homelessness illegal, that's why places like LA have been failing at this for so long, you actually have to offer up help to those in need, otherwise they'll be back on the streets in a few days.

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      Smut Kaleidoscopeallosaurusfragilis
      3/06/14 1:14pm

      I would totally support this. It's a structural solution to homelessness, rather than the feel good remedy of throwing a buck at whoever's most pitiable.

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    trudibell_Hamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 12:55pm

    There was this kid with gray skin and a vacant look in his eye who couldn't have been more than 20 who would regularly get on the F-train and emotionlessly tell his story about how he can't get a break and has no family and no job and the recession has been really tough and stuff and how anything would help any change or food or whatever. So, I'm a cheap-stake health nerd who always brings my lunch with me wherever I go, which includes a bag of raw vegetables. Well one day I handed him my lunch, because I figured meh I can just get a slice instead and live dangerously and he's always on here doing the same spiel over and over and over again.

    Well he took the lunch, said nothing and left the train. About a week passed by and there I was on the F train and he got on, saw I was there, and turned around and walked right off the car before the door was shut. I always felt like kind of an asshole about it later.

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      Zsa Zsa Gaborgtrudibell_
      3/06/14 1:17pm

      Why should you feel bad? If he doesn't like the help you gave, that's his right, but it doesn't negate your intentions.

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      trudibell_Zsa Zsa Gaborg
      3/06/14 1:40pm

      I guess I felt like an asshole because rather than giving him money I chose to sanctimoniously give him my lunch instead. I don't know, I guess my heart was in the right place but it's one of those questions that at what point are you helping out or just doing something to make yourself feel good.

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    benjaminalloverHamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 1:03pm

    Years ago when in University, myself and some others staged a political protest in a public square. The nearby bank called in the police, who came and arrested some of us. I thought, "wait a sec, there are no laws that would allow a business to say who can or cannot exist in public!" Turns out, there certainly are. It was the local homeless population that ended up explaining to us how these bylaws were enacted and enforced. "When the fuck did that happen?" I asked, stupidly. When people were more interested in the city's image to tourists than the erosion of civil rights, that's when.

    It's very easy to let other people's rights slip away without thinking about it, until the day you attempt to invoke those same rights, and they're gone.

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      Funyuns for breakfastbenjaminallover
      3/06/14 1:14pm

      "It's very easy to let other people's rights slip away without thinking about it, until the day you attempt to invoke those same rights, and they're gone."

      Such an excellent sentiment not enough people think about (until something happens to them). If I've been shopping all day and hurt my foot in some area where it's illegal to sit on the sidewalk, I'd never worry about getting arrested just by sitting down. These types of laws are just as discriminatory as Stop and Frisk.

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      kararoseebenjaminallover
      3/06/14 1:44pm

      Very well put! What you said reminds me of this (I'm sure you've heard the song before):

      "First they put away the dealers,
      keep our kids safe and off the street.
      Then they put away the prostitutes,
      keep married men cloistered at home.

      Then they shooed away the bums,
      then they beat and bashed the queers,
      turned away asylum-seekers,
      fed us suspicions and fears.
      We didn't raise our voice,
      we didn't make a fuss.
      It's funny there was no one left to notice
      when they came for us."

      Chillingly accurate, no?

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    Guy Julio KaiserHamilton Nolan
    3/06/14 1:59pm

    I remember seeing this kid panhandling for money on the F train a lot for about 6 months and I usually gave him a dollar when I had cash on me. This was in 2011. He had this sad aura about him and always gave a speak about how he didn't do drugs and just needed some food and a place to sleep and you could tell that it really pained him to ask every time. As the months passed, he started taking on that sickly look that junkies get over time. I still gave him a dollar when I had the chance, because I've never bought into that bullshit that giving money to homeless drug addicts is only going to enable their addiction, because for all I know maybe he's already got his fix covered and actually will use that dollar towards a sandwich.

    If someone could please explain to me how arresting that kid could have save him, I'm all ears.

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      amcnairGuy Julio Kaiser
      2/04/16 10:31am

      Arresting him doesn’t save him, it saves you. It saves you from being hassled and improves your quality of life. It also discourages him from interacting with the people who can afford to help him. But he is not the concern of the police force. Their concern in this matter is making sure that you can get to your office comfortably, so that you will be less likely to move to somewhere you see as more comfortable.

      I’m not suggesting that this is the way things should be, but it’s the way things are.

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