Kinja reply list

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MuckyDuckKen Layne
2/21/14 5:07pm
It is true that Nirvana's music doesn't sound quite as timeless as I thought it would. It's a little saddening, because I credit that band with pulling me out of my rural cocoon. But the best Mudhoney stuff still wrecks all hell. Not all of that era's music has aged well, but some of it is solid gold.
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  AshisyouMuckyDuck
  2/21/14 5:19pm
  Thats because Nirvana was ultimately a very redundant and unoriginal band. Though, they brought punk rock music to the masses and had great songs.
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  redeyeMuckyDuck
  2/21/14 5:21pm
  Anyone who thinks Nirvana is the best grunge band is a poser with horrible taste in music. Mudhoney was by far the best grunge band. Anyone who disagrees should get a kick to the teeth with a pair of Doc Martens.
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IDRIVENEONKen Layne
2/21/14 5:28pm
Author says rock n roll is dying while an album the Foo Fighters recorded in Dave Grohl's house went Gold or Platinum in a bunch of countries.

It might not be as prevalent on mtv or on top 40 radio but rock and roll isnt dead.
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  chitownroxIDRIVENEON
  2/21/14 5:42pm
  Yeah, if you want to call what the Foo Fighters do, "classic rock." Cobain would have hated it.
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  Ken LayneIDRIVENEON
  2/21/14 5:55pm
  Of course there are still acts selling records. Bands that haven't been around for 40 years are still selling records in the millions. But we've long passed the point when rock was a cultural driver that was primarily entertainment for young people.
  
  I'm not a great fan of grunge (although I loved Nirvana), but that seems like the last time a youth-rock movement dominated American culture. And that was 20 years back. Of course it was a lot easier to do that back when a very limited number of media outlets controlled the music videos and the record store placement.
  
  My corner bar plays Foo Fighters and such on the sound system, but the clientele is a lot of people in their 40s, like me. Around the corner at the bubble-tea place, it's all "Everything is Awesome" (a parody of electronic pop) and kids looking at their phones.
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Mork Encino's Thick PeltKen Layne
2/21/14 5:39pm
It would take too long to make the entire argument, but still would like to point out that the "rock is dead" meme is more accurate if the description is limited to the United States. In Europe, South America and parts of Asia, rock music still sells out arenas and rock music festivals remain really popular.

I still listen to rock music and most of it is new: band like Parquet Courts and Savages released two of my favorite recent albums and there are plenty of other bands made up of kids young enough to be my children are putting out records that I still like. But I can't deny that rock won't ever dominate the pop charts again.

The same is true of jazz, which once was very popular on a relatively-mass scale. It no longer is and won't ever again be "pop music." But jazz isn't dead, I still go to a fair amount of jazz performances and see young musicians carrying on the tradition.

As a person who grew up on rock, I barely care that it's not popular anymore. The bands I liked were mostly not that popular to begin with. That said, I don't think "rock is dead" any more than jazz or classical forms are dead. And in places other than the U.S., rock remains a rather lively form of music.
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  Ken LayneMork Encino's Thick Pelt
  2/21/14 6:24pm
  Oh I agree that there's plenty of tremendous music being made. I mean strictly in a mass pop-culture youth movement way, and rock had its last hurrah during grunge. It is a little bit depressing but probably not inaccurate to say that YouTube memes like Gangnam Style have a vastly broader cultural reach than anything in the rock music category in the 21st Century.
  
  I remember specifically having this thought when Weezer, a band that was hugely popular in the post-grunge era, made a video around 2007 that was all memes from YouTube. I have no thoughts on Weezer or most rock bands, but it was interesting to watch the transition from "something that invents culture" to "something that copies the prevalent culture from another medium." It was weird, and it still is.
  
  (I'm not at all nostalgic for grunge, which I generally dismissed as orc music then and now, but I did love Nirvana and the more melodic alternative groups that influenced them. Still a sucker for the Pixies and the Breeders and the Replacements, even though that's officially Old Person Music today.)
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  Mork Encino's Thick PeltKen Layne
  2/21/14 6:44pm
  I really appreciate your reply.
  
  I'll tell you something interesting. In the late 80s, I remember seeing The Replacements and REM in clubs, then small theaters in Los Angeles. The crowds were mostly people my age, college age and a little older, with a smattering of gray haired folks who liked to keep up with new music. I recently saw the two bands I mentioned above, Parquet Courts and Savages in small theaters here in L.A. and the crowd was identical, only now I was the gray haired guy. The percentage of people wearing Velvet Underground shirts remains the same. What I look at it like that, it doesn't feel as if things have changed that much.
  
  But, I completely agree that in terms of pop culture and youth culture, rock is no longer relevant and I seriously doubt it will be again. I'm fine with it. Tomorrow I'll be at The Troubadour seeing a trio of young rock acts, including Colleen Green who I've touted before as a young artist I really like (and I'm pretty sure she's younger than my kids.) Things are better abroad, where even bands like Bad Religion, who were never popular in the States, still remain popular enough to make a living touring across Europe every year or so.
  
  Again, I appreciate your reply and I encourage people (of all ages) who still like rock music (played by people with guitars and stuff) to seek out their local college station or find one online (I like KXLU). As you noted, there is still some really good and interesting rock music being released by young artists from their own valid and relevant points of view. It's just not gonna win any Grammys.
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Jerry-NetherlandKen Layne
2/21/14 5:08pm
Wanna see why he hated Aberdeen? Read through the "comments" section in the linked Komo News article. Those are some heartless people, with neither understanding of mental illness & drug addiction, nor respect for Cobain's success. Postmortem bullying in the extreme.
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  Ken LayneJerry-Netherland
  2/21/14 5:32pm
  One of the most reliable and banal "insults" from idiots is that a noteworthy person is somehow undeserving of what the achieved because of their health issues or habits.
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  Ken LayneKen Layne
  2/21/14 6:06pm
  ... "what THEY achieved because of their health issues or habits."
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Hollow_LogKen Layne
2/21/14 5:20pm
I'm confused. Isn't this the same shitty statue that has been on display in a muffler shop for years?
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  Ken LayneHollow_Log
  2/21/14 6:40pm
  Yes! Same ugly statue. Also is your username somehow a reference to a song from "One Foot In the Grave"?
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  Hollow_LogKen Layne
  2/21/14 7:34pm
  It is indeed.
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FrownTacoKen Layne
2/21/14 5:02pm
Aberdeen is seriously the most depressing city you could ever hope to visit. You're happily driving through the woods on the way to the coast and then BAM!, hopelessly morose ex-logging town.
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  Ken LayneFrownTaco
  2/21/14 5:37pm
  The crazy thing is how breathtakingly beautiful that general area is, in terms of wilderness and water. Some places were constructed purely out of spite for the people who would one day have to live there.
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  ApplesFourJamFrownTaco
  2/21/14 6:34pm
  Yes. Whenever I drive through it, I shudder at the thought of living there as a teenager. Just so awful. I grew up in Salem, OR and Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, AK so I'm familiar with the feeling.
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zombieeileenisrisenKen Layne
2/21/14 5:49pm
"Rock isn't an escape from lower-class drudgery, it's an amusement for the 1%."

'Twas ever thus. In case you've forgotten or didn't notice, Elvis, The Beatles, all of them, aspired to working in supper clubs and crowded halls with polite and high paying audiences.

And the Punks? Even they want to get paid.

You're living in a rock n' roll egalitarian fantasy world that never existed, Mr. Layne. It's always been about the money. Always.
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  Ken Laynezombieeileenisrisen
  2/21/14 6:36pm
  No no, what I mean is that rock is now a playground for people who were born wealthy, because rock doesn't pay anymore. This is why you always see those sad stories about one beloved "indie" band or another being unable to live off performing and selling their music. The music business has completely changed since the iPod and Napster, to the point that only mega-selling pop artists make a lot of money from music.
  
  Whenever I hear that a band lives in Brooklyn, for example, I can be pretty certain that they come from families with money. Nobody else can afford Brooklyn, and certainly not on those 0.00000003 cent checks from Spotify and Pandora. Learning which private school or Ivy League university the band met at, well that's another clue.
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  Brigade Of BlastKen Layne
  2/21/14 11:01pm
  I disagree with a little of what you wrote in this article but overall I give it a "thumbs up". I was more into the movement that was going on in Britain during this time than in the USA. However, despite the differences between the two there's more similarity between the two movements than people on either side would like to admit. You're right about many things... music in General is tough to make a living at. Yes, it was always difficult but now more than ever. You're right about the new indie bands too. Yeah, they want to live in "gritty urban" environments like Brooklyn but when it comes down to it they don't have the bollocks. They all remind me of the subject of Pulp's "Common People". I'm posting this on my phone so you'll have to settle for the lyrics...
  
  She came from Greece she had a thirst for knowledge,
  She studied sculpture at Saint Martin's College,
  That's where I,
  Caught her eye.
  She told me that her Dad was loaded,
  I said "In that case I'll have a rum and coca-cola."
  She said "Fine."
  And in thirty seconds time she said,
  
  I want to live like common people,
  I want to do whatever common people do,
  I want to sleep with common people,
  I want to sleep with common people,
  Like you.
  
  Well what else could I do
  I said "I'll see what I can do."
  I took her to a supermarket,
  I don't know why,
  But I had to start it somewhere,
  So it started there.
  I said pretend you've got no money,
  She just laughed and said,
  "Oh you're so funny."
  I said "Yeah?
  Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here.
  
  Are you sure you want to live like common people,
  You want to see whatever common people see,
  You want to sleep with common people,
  You want to sleep with common people,
  Like me.
  
  But she didn't understand,
  She just smiled and held my hand.
  Rent a flat above a shop,
  Cut your hair and get a job.
  Smoke some fags and play some pool,
  Pretend you never went to school.
  But still you'll never get it right,
  'Cause when you're laid in bed at night,
  Watching roaches climb the wall,
  If you called your Dad he could stop it all.
  
  You'll never live like common people,
  You'll never do whatever common people do,
  You'll never fail like common people,
  You'll never watch your life slide out of view,
  And dance and drink and screw,
  Because there's nothing else to do.
  
  Sing along with the common people,
  Sing along and it might just get you through.
  Laugh along with the common people,
  Laugh along even though they're laughing at you,
  And the stupid things that you do.
  Because you think that poor is cool.
  
  Like a dog lying in a corner,
  They will bite you and never warn you,
  Look out,they'll tear your insides out.
  'Cause everybody hates a tourist,
  Especially one who thinks it's all such a laugh,
  Yeah and the chip stain's grease,
  Will come out in the bath.
  
  You will never understand
  How it feels to live your life
  With no meaning or control
  And with nowhere left to go.
  You are amazed that they exist
  And they burn so bright,
  Whilst you can only wonder why.
  Rent a flat above a shop
  Cut your hair and get a job
  Smoke some fags and play some pool
  Pretend you never went to school,
  But still you'll never get it right
  'Cause when you're laid in bed at night
  And watching roaches climb the wall,
  If you called your dad he could stop it all
  Yeah
  
  You'll never live like common people
  You'll never do what common people do
  You'll never fail like common people
  You'll never watch your life slide out of view
  And then dance and drink and screw
  Because there's nothing else to do
  
  I want to live with common people like you
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PöòtKen Layne
2/21/14 6:12pm
The Experience Music Project is indeed ugly as fuck from the outside. But it's far from a tourist trap. There's some great stuff in there. It gets a very unfair rap.
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  Ken LaynePöòt
  2/21/14 7:15pm
  Well, it is a tourist trap. But that's not a complaint, it's what any popular attraction is supposed to be.
  
  The Nirvana collection they've got there is really worth seeing, if anyone has even a casual interest in the band and the era.
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Not A SnortKen Layne
2/21/14 5:11pm
True Story: in 1995, the year after Kurt died, I was commissioned by Spencer's Gifts to make a figurehead (head and shoulders statue for desk display) for them to sell that, as they put it, "embodied the punk rock persona of Kurt". I employed the very best sculptors that we had working for us at the time, but every iteration they made ended up looked like Jesus in a plaid shirt. If I'm honest, it was pretty much impossible to capture the emotive wail of Kurt mid-song. I tried to explain this, but my plaintive wail fell on deaf ears.

When I pointed this out to the merchandise manager, she said "but is it 'punk rock'?" At this point, after six failed meetings about the same subject, I lost it and I said "no, it's not, but then neither are you, YOU FUCKING CORPORATE CUNT!" and I proceeded to used the head and shoulders of someone I had come to think of as a role model to pulverize the entire "Fall 95' Spring '96" Season" of horrendous mall merchandise into oblivion .

Speaking now, twenty years later, it wasn't my most profitable interaction with corporate America, but it was certainly the most satisfying.
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  spanther22aNot A Snort
  2/21/14 5:21pm
  cool, corporate cunt calls corporate cunt a corporate cunt.
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  Ken LayneNot A Snort
  2/21/14 5:27pm
  This is a fantastic indictment of everything. Thanks for putting it here.
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kevin_kancerKen Layne
2/21/14 5:05pm
Ken, you're going to take a lot of shit for this post but I liked it. I grew up in rural Western Washington State; it's even worse now than when Kurt or I grew up.
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  Ken Laynekevin_kancer
  2/21/14 5:24pm
  Thanks, Kevin. 90% of Gawker's readers are mouth-breathing teenagers, so this is obviously not for them. But I also lived in a rural mountain town in the 1980s, so when grunge became a fashion it was amusing—until then, work boots and flannel was the visual code for "poor hick" or maybe "rural pot dealer."
  
  The best thing about the "grunge look" is how it washed all the '80s fashions away like a 6-month-long rainy season.
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  CharltonHestonsColdDeadHandsKen Layne
  2/21/14 5:55pm
  One of the better compliments of Cobain I ever heard (esp. regarding his effect on pop culture of the time) was "He killed Eddie Van Halen as surely as if he'd pushed him into traffic. And amazingly, he did it with a guitar."
  
  That a scuzzy guy who dressed like a bum who played simple songs really loud made all the obnoxious coked-out excess of hair metal lame absolutely overnight is pretty fucking remarkable.
  
  Also "We sound like The Knack and the Bay City Rollers being molested by Black Flag and Black Sabbath" is one of the finest 1-line band bios in human history.
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