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    Left HandshakeRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 4:14pm

    Obviously emergency and public services (not businesses) being able to refuse anyone on any basis is wretched and reprehensible.

    But... I can't feel riled up over businesses being legally allowed to refuse people service on the basis of their sexual orientation. I think a business owner ought to have the right to refuse working with certain people, just as those certain people have every right to seek a different business. Is that really problematic? Obviously it's stupid, it's bigoted, it's piss-poor business sense... but just the same, those customers ought to be spending their money at a business helmed by people who aren't morons, and who can be tolerant and accepting of their clientele- in fact, those are the very people we should all wish to succeed, no?

    I just think it should be business owners' right to go bankrupt and close down because they chose to be shitbarge idiots.

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      acmeindustriesLeft Handshake
      2/14/14 4:18pm

      Do you feel the same way about racial discrimination by private businesses?

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      Cherith CutestoryLeft Handshake
      2/14/14 4:26pm

      Is that really problematic?

      Separate lunch counters for black people was quite problematic.

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    JohnMcClanesSmirkRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 4:05pm
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      Dirty FoolJohnMcClanesSmirk
      2/14/14 4:08pm

      Exactly. Does this law then mean that as Pastafarian I can refuse service to anyone wearing a cross, or not wearing the traditional headgear? I would love to see a majority religious group being refused services due to a stupid law they advocated for. And to boot they would have to pay the attorney fees to challenge it!

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      JohnMcClanesSmirkDirty Fool
      2/14/14 4:09pm

      This is why I support atheist trolling in a legal context. Take their pseduo secular logic and then turn it back at them and see how long it lasts. "Religious freedom" for one means "religious freedom" for all.

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    KaiFromDogtownRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 3:54pm

    A strong majority of my members support laws that define traditional marriage, protect religious institutions, and protect individuals from being forced to violate their personal moral values. However, my members also don't condone discrimination.


    In other words, your members are not particularly bright. Cognitive dissonance for the win.

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      toothpetardKaiFromDogtown
      2/14/14 3:57pm

      I wonder how they feel about 'small government'.

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      acmeindustriestoothpetard
      2/14/14 3:58pm

      They probably want government to stay out of Social Security.

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    BlatheringRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 3:56pm

    Yes, religious conservatives, this is where you need to work. On passing more bills that, best case scenario, end up in expensive litigation and unenforced.

    Because why work to fix (eta: what you see as) a problem when you can be an asshat and then play the victim card when the ACLU or someone else calls you on bigotry?

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      EuniceBurnsBlathering
      2/14/14 4:41pm

      My favorite part though:

      "The refusal of service in any sort of public retail establishment (restaurants, grocery stores, movie theaters, dry cleaners, florists, trophy shops)"

      NOOOOO! Not the trophy shops! Kind of a random list addition. You might go to all those others weekly, but trophies?

      But seriously, ambulances and hospitals? Letting people die cause you think their gayness is a sin against god? WWJD indeed!

      But you're exactly right - this will be struck down in the courts and then they can claim how Christians are being persecuted and victimized.

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      BlatheringEuniceBurns
      2/14/14 4:45pm

      "Them libruls are making us take gays to hospitals. And get treatment! This is an infringement of our Christian faith of caring and generosity!"

      Oy. My head hurts.

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    ManchuCandidateRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 3:56pm

    After years of asking "What the fuck is the matter with Kansas?" I now have the answer.

    I should have figured it out sooner when I noticed you had an unhealthy obsession with the Wizard of Oz and ruby slippers.

    Kansas, it's time to get out of the homophobic closet and embrace your love of the Tin Man.

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      Auntie_EmManchuCandidate
      2/14/14 4:19pm

      Oh, um, er,.... OK, you may have a point there

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    ldno99Rich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 4:07pm

    My initial reaction to this as a gay man is mixed. On the one hand I want businesses who are going to discriminate against me do so openly by refusing service instead of say, spitting in my food, or making a disgusting weeding cake. I don't want the secret discrimination and I don't want to support them financially. However this bill is questionable because of the public component. Additionally, you always have to worry about not being able to find alternatives. Eg if your internet provider discrimanates, it's not like finding a different cake maker.

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      ninjaginldno99
      2/14/14 4:17pm

      That's a really insightful comment, and one that I didn't expect to see. Thank you for making it.

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      Ecchic89ldno99
      2/14/14 4:23pm

      I think it was an essay by Dr. Martin Luther King where he siad that he preferred the discrimination of the South because at least you always knew where you stood with people.

      I'm like you, and would prefer that businesses be open with their idiotic discrimination so that I can decline to give them any money and tell them where to stick it. But I think that satisfaction would definitely be outweighed by the incredibly negative impacts.

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    BlatheringRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 4:22pm

    How do they know it's a gay couple? Are pink triangles required to be worn at all times?

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      hudsmtBlathering
      2/14/14 5:28pm

      They can just guess. They don't have to be right. I once stood in line at a hotel concierge desk, and the two men in front of me were refused service. They claimed to be two straight men — asking for one room with two beds (to save money). But the owners didn't believe it, so the hotel kept the deposit and made the two men leave.

      Then, when I checked in (an *actually* gay man, but staying alone), I was afraid to say a single word. I thought if they "figured me out," I would have to sleep in my car. This is what it's like to be a gay American. You just have to hope your secret is kept so that you can live a normal day-to-day life.

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    CountItRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 4:05pm

    As a Kansan this ticks me off because for so many years, I've been able to justify the reason why Missouri sucks based on the fact that Kansas was a free state and we won the war between the states (and continued to do so annually via basketball). This reverses all of that. 150 years ago Kansas was a more accepting and progressive state than it is today, and that's sad.

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      Auntie_EmCountIt
      2/14/14 4:28pm

      Right? I keep remembering my 6th-grade state history course about how Kansans fought and died to enter the union as a free state. And now when I tell people I'm from there I immediately have to apologize for it.

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      PinwizCountIt
      2/14/14 4:33pm

      Same here. It drives me fucking crazy to read these things coming from my home state.

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    Igor The CunningRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 3:58pm

    What's the difference between radical Muslims and radical Christians?

    Cuz... I'm not seeing much except the radical Christians have figured out to just take the 72 virgins while living.

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      lmpIgor The Cunning
      2/14/14 4:17pm

      radical Christians have successfully infiltrated nearly all European, American Cultures.

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      DuffinIgor The Cunning
      2/17/14 8:33am

      Radical Christians are white and Muslims aren't.

      Well, okay, both have people of both races, but you know that's how most everyone perceives them to be.

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    TractorchickRich Juzwiak
    2/14/14 6:00pm

    God, we have a similar bill being bandied about here in Idaho. The incredi-stupid part: as a city, Boise (the capital) has laws on the books making discrimination based on gender and sexual orientation illegal- but the bulk of the state's lawmakers are trying to push it through. Here in town- in frickin' Boise, where the state's legislature resides. I keep thinking, couldn't the city police arrest them on those grounds...? Wishful thinking, I suppose. It would certainly be amusing, though.

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      TRUMP DELENDUS EST (fka Chatham Harrison)Tractorchick
      2/14/14 9:11pm

      Weirdly, that question has an answer. As a general rule, legislators are free from arrest from crimes committed in the performance of their duties. It's a throwback to times when members of Parliament could be arrested by their political opponents to prevent them from voting. For the Feds, it doesn't cover violent felonies, treason or "breach of the peace", but otherwise if a legislator is in session or is traveling to or from a legislative session, they are privileged from arrest. They can still be cited and charged, but they cannot be taken into custody.

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      TractorchickTRUMP DELENDUS EST (fka Chatham Harrison)
      2/17/14 3:20pm

      Thank you! I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, so this is very helpful! :)

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