Kinja reply list

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UncleCCClaudiusHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 10:39am
Wait until things warm up enough and the methane clathrate in permafrost gets released. Then you're going to see some shit.
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  KinglyCitrusUncleCCClaudius
  2/14/14 10:44am
  Whether or not that will happen isn't at all agreed upon. Personally, I really hope that it doesn't. Because that wouldn't be a "wakeup call"—that would be our extinction event.
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  Exponential GrapeUncleCCClaudius
  2/14/14 10:50am
  literally?
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PeteRRHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 10:35am
How about unicorn farts? They're about as cost effective as wind and solar.
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  keeplosingburnersPeteRR
  2/14/14 11:06am
  I'll just leave this here.
  
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  Sir Culgets the SquarePeteRR
  2/14/14 2:48pm
  
  You want to use WHAT, now?
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TedNougatHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 10:41am
RANT TIME:

Years ago, the powers that be made a case that natural gas was the way of the future. I started hearing this in something like 8th grade, 15+ years ago. 15% (avg) cheaper than any other source. Cleaner. More reliable.

So 5 years ago, i buy a house completely converted to natural gas. It's the most expensive expense in the expansive universe of expenses. I'm 99.9% sure it's the reason the guy sold his house anyway. Not too divulge too much, but our NG bills are anywhere between 200-500 depending on the season. $160+ is on a "delivery charge" that i have to pay because no good reason.
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  newgalacticTedNougat
  2/14/14 12:50pm
  Is that the season? Or per billing cycle? In CT, I spend around $2500 per year on fuel oil. It ends up being about $550 to $600 every 1.5 months during the winter.
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  TedNougatnewgalactic
  2/14/14 1:33pm
  Billing cycle. At least they're doing the rounds thanking everyone for their business./sarcasm
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iElvis Found Trump's Tax Returns Too Late to Save GawkerHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 10:46am

Any other ideas?

Yeah. We fix the leaks.

Other studies have shown that leakage of methane can be dramatically reduced if things are kept in proper repair and the proper procedures are followed. Natural gas wells leak all kinds of methane under traditional approaches, but with modern "green completion" technology, leaks can be reduced by about 95%. And they pay for themselves through the gas they capture. The industry just has to be pushed into doing it.

The real problem, though is not upstream or midstream production or distribution, but the end users. Most local distribution systems—the pipes that get the gas from your gas company to your house—are decades old. Some parts of some systems are over 100 years old. These things leak like sieves.

NG vehicles or not, we're not getting our economy off natural gas any time soon, so we need to tackle this problem head on.
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  Exponential GrapeiElvis Found Trump's Tax Returns Too Late to Save Gawker
  2/14/14 10:51am
  but regulations cost money and money steals jobs from the job creators!
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  KaiFromDogtownExponential Grape
  2/14/14 10:56am
  I know you're being a little facetious here, but the fact of the matter is: the industry should want to fix the leaks. What's leaking away are their profits, after all. But perhaps the costs to repair the leaks outweigh the marginal profits recovered, who knows.
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elaine layaboutHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 10:49am
but isn't that the way we calculate all the costs of fossil fuels? we ignore the environmental costs of taking them out of the ground, we ignore the environmental costs of their transport and mis-transport, and we ignore the life-and-death geopolitical costs of securing them

if the true costs of fossil fuels were reflected at the pump, we'd have been living on alternative, sustainable energy since the 70s
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  thelatestthingelaine layabout
  2/14/14 10:57am
  Besides, what the sign is referring to when it says cleaner is exhaust particles, and natural gas is much better than diesel in blowing crap into the air.
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  FatLynnelaine layabout
  2/14/14 11:04am
  Yup. This is also true of electric cars. It doesn't accomplish anything to run your car on electricity, if the electricity comes from the burning of fossil fuels.
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SpangarangHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 10:46am
Yeah, and you know what drilling method emits lower methane? Fracking. So, what then? Fossil fuels aren't going anywhere while they're still cheaper than alternative sources. The best we can do is try to make them cleaner, but even then, it's not enough for some.
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  BrrrrSpangarang
  2/14/14 11:47am
  Really, I think fracking would emit more. After all, with fracking you are busting up shale to get the gas out. I think you would lose more methane with that process than with traditional drilling. Do you have research to back up your statement?
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  SpangarangBrrrr
  2/14/14 12:02pm
  It was in the NYT article.
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Andy M-S -> I'm With HerHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 11:14am
How about...

We walk. We take the bus and/or train anyway ('cause fewer engines, ceteris paribus, means less pollution). We ride bikes.

There's lots we can do. Giving up is not an option.
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  pupmeowAndy M-S -> I'm With Her
  2/14/14 4:19pm
  We change the layout of most existing towns in the United States.
  
  Seriously, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but lots of people don't live in major metropolitan areas, and can't walk/bike/mass transit to work. Car culture is the result of city planning, and we're going to have to knock down a whole lotta buildings to fix that one.
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  Andy M-S -> I'm With Herpupmeow
  2/14/14 10:24pm
  The proportion of the population that lives in urban areas is pretty high, but there will always be people who don't (and we need those people). But there's no reason not to have the suburban areas (at least) connected by bus transit to urban centers.
  
  FWIW, I used to bike 9 miles one way in Wisconsin to get from my home to work. 11 months out of the year. So I know it's doable. I know lots of folks live farther than that from work—that's what buses and trains are for.
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Brock SamsaHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 10:40am
Definitely a little bit let down that this didn't mention Chiobani even tangentially.
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benjaminalloverHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 12:32pm
We have a little tour bus in our town that runs on used french fry oil, which the restaurants are more than happy to give away to save money disposing of it. Yes, it smells a bit like french fries.
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philaDLJHamilton Nolan
2/14/14 3:52pm
That's not the only reason to use natural gas to power vehicles. For one thing, widespread adoption of CNG as a vehicle fuel will not drive up the price of tortillas.
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