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benjaminalloverHamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:13pm
Well i'm ignoring this advice, because i don't want to wait to enjoy my home until after I can afford to buy it, which looks like never.

I always explain what i want to do to the owner and negotiate a discount on my rent, for my labor or for the material costs, or both. This has worked out for me a couple of times, because i can do a lot of the work myself, and the home owners I've rented from have been fair about subtracting the cost from my rent, as long as it's an improvement that they agree adds value. Win/win.

Really, I have learned to drywall/paint/install flooring/ etc. on their house with their money, so if I ever can afford a home of my own, I will be more skilled at it. Plus, i get to enjoy the nicer living quarters in the meantime.
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  throwaway-burnerbenjaminallover
  1/21/14 2:18pm
  if you don't own the house it's not "your home"
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  Zeetalbenjaminallover
  1/21/14 2:22pm
  This is what we did, too.
  
  We not only negotiated on rent, but we also split the costs and that she would cover any costs that were "beyond the basic renovation." We defined this as thus: If we strip off the carpets, and the hardwood is fine, then we'll strip and refinish it, splitting the costs. If part of the flooring is so damaged that it needs to be removed and patched, then that's her cost (largely because it means the apartment isn't technically fit to live in — I talked to a lawyer before hand).
  
  In our case, we did a very simple reno of the bathroom — paint the walls/etc, and re-do the flooring. Flooring came up and it was a fright show. Mould problem, big time, combined with an uneven, lumpy and crumbling subfloor (concrete). So, she had to pay for the mold to be cleaned and the new subfloor, and then we did the new flooring over that (and split that cost).
  
  And, we managed to get $300/mo taken off our rent for a year — and that's not small potatoes.
  
  We have moved on, now, but were able to find her a tenant very quickly, and the only things that really need to be done to the place is re-wiring. That's going to be the landlord's job, ultimately, and my friend is pushing for it because it's grandfathered in but well below code.
  
  The landlord is pretty hands off overall, and before we moved in and our friends next door (both properties owned by our landlord), the prior tenants moved out because the roofs were leaking so badly, there wasn't a dry spot in the house. Losing both tenants at once sort of "woke her up" to fixing the roofs and the damages from the leaking (it was 2-3 years of leaking!) that she hadn't fixed.
  
  Thus, when we came in and wanted to make some improvements, she was happy to have us source the workmen (and we had her verify that they were ok to work with), and so on. It worked out great.
  
  Even though she stiffed us on the security deposit.
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toothpetardHamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:06pm
As a homeowner and a renter, it's so nice to just call the landlord.
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  CommonVicestoothpetard
  1/21/14 2:10pm
  That's what I miss most about renting. I wouldn't go back to it, but I sure miss it whenever I look at a leak or a malfunctioning appliance and think, "This is my fucking problem."
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  Astruetoothpetard
  1/21/14 2:14pm
  Except when you have a landlord too cheap or poor to fix things.
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00000Hamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:04pm
What about small renovations, such as painting a room? I feel like it's worth ~$100 to have a color you like for a few years. I also put in a bar, which my landlord seems to think I'm going to leave for him. HA!
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  dehumanized00000
  1/21/14 2:10pm
  Pretty sure that's ok. Spending a little money and time on paint to make your place more enjoyable is a far cry from spending thousands of dollars on renovations.
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  ARP200000
  1/21/14 2:10pm
  See #3- painting is considered a fitting. Depending on how attached the bar is to the unit, that's a fixture and the landlord gets to keep that. Or, you'll have to remove it without damaging the until.
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Collapsed ConversationHamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:28pm
From the NYT article:

After about two months of negotiation, the couple worked out a deal with the landlord for a five-year lease and a significant rent concession. They would not give specifics, but said that in the end, they will pay well below the $2,950 a month that the rental was listed for in its pre-renovated condition.

“We get a break on rent, but put a significant investment in the property,” said Mr. Michon, a financial analyst who works on Wall Street. The deal, he added, “allows us to get a home without the mortgage and without having to search hundreds of apartments for something that suits our taste.”

It's curious that they won't reveal how much that they actually pay in rent to allow the reader to do the math and see whether their decision makes sense. But that's probably because it doesn't.

Even if it were only $1,500 a month, it still just seems like they'd be better off using the $45K on a down payment to BUY their own place.
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  suzrob400Collapsed Conversation
  1/21/14 2:51pm
  If they pay $2200 a month then they've essentially broken even. Can they purchase an equivalent home for that?
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  Collapsed Conversationsuzrob400
  1/21/14 3:08pm
  I addressed this in my comment above. They probably cannot buy an equivalent place in that neighborhood; but the idea would be to buy a more affordable place in Staten Island or Jersey, save some money over the years, then sell it later at a profit. Then buy a condo in Manhattan if they still feel the need.
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Mary MacksHamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:22pm
My grandparents moved into a rent controlled apartment in Queens in the late 70's and they knew they would probably live there a while (which they did, until they both died last year) so they renovated the kitchen and living room, put in a dishwasher hired a decorator and really spruced up the place. I don't see the harm in renovating if you plan on living in one place for a long time. Especially if you can't get kicked out due to rent control. These people in Red Hook should have negotiated with their landlords, gotten something in writing or should have tried to get their building rent controlled before putting thousands of dollars into their apartments though. That's just common sense, right?

Fun fact: at the time of their death my grandparents were paying $890.00 for a huge 2 bed/ 1.5 bath. Rent control is really great.
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  JeeperzCreeperzRAWRMary Macks
  1/21/14 5:40pm
  @AnnaDombrowski...So...who lives in the unit now?
  Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode. Everything reminds me of a Seinfeld episode.
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  ConnieMilliganMary Macks
  1/21/14 10:31pm
  I split the cost of sanding the floors and painting my apartment with the landlord. Cost me less than $2000. I plumber-friend put a shower in years ago. Some people in the bldg have installed additional electrical lines.
  
  My apartment is a four room railroad rent controlled cold water flat and I've live here (Hoboken NJ) for 25 years. My rent is $632
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IAmNotADamnWriterHamilton Nolan
1/21/14 3:06pm
You could always just rip out the renovations when you're booted out by the landlord because he's jacked up the rent so fucking high it takes all of your paycheck to keep living there. Or just burn the fucking thing down.
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  thepieisfryingIAmNotADamnWriter
  1/21/14 4:01pm
  in most cases, burning it down would likely do him a huge favor. most homes are insured for more than they are worth, and rentals can be trashed.
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  IAmNotADamnWriterthepieisfrying
  1/21/14 4:22pm
  Not that I'd actually burn any place down to leave other tenants homeless, mind you. But ... arson with accelerants ... what a great idea!
  
  I did not type that.
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OMG!PONIES!Hamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:22pm
You don't own your rental. Moreover, you signed a contract regarding what your rights are as a renter. Generally, you have no rights to fixtures that you install (fixture is a legal term in this instance meaning something installed and not readily detachable). If you install new plumbing, congratulations on donating a fixture. New tile work? New fixture. It's affixed appurtenant to the apartment and now it belongs to the apartment.

You are not entitled to lease renewals or guaranteed rents after the lease term expires.

And if you can afford to pay for extensive renovations, you can afford to call your landlord to try to negotiate.

As to those wanting to paint, again, ask your landlord. If you get told no, then the cost to restore it to decorator white will come out of your security deposit.
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  zygomaticOMG!PONIES!
  1/21/14 7:59pm
  For those of you in big buildings however ( I am counting on the OP to "black this") You should definitely talk to your super before moving out. Lived in Queens, and then a NYC suburban city... both times the building super was cool with us putting a coat of primer over the dark colors we had painted. In the latter case, the guy took 150$, and agreed to report the color was fine to the company. In both situations we were very up front, AHEAD OF TIME, to our super that we were moving out of a painted apartment and had not bothered them since moving in unless it was serious, and acted respectfully. Their major caveat?: I'll look the other way, as long as you leave the place really clean. We complied, and got our complete deposit back from 2 companies that were notoriious for keeping it. Turns out...you piss the guy off that has to clean your place...you will pay. They don't mind repainting.
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  Devious204OMG!PONIES!
  1/22/14 10:07am
  There was an article on Lifehacker way back that had tips on how to spruce up your rental to make it feel nicer. Little things like just changing the cupboard/drawer hardware, accent decals, etc. The amount of change to a room that cupboard knobs make is rather unreal. We just did our kitchen from flat grey metal ones to little red ikea button knobby ones. Really brings the room to life. The old crappy hardware is in a container in a closet, not to resurface till we make the decision to move.
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myprettyponyHamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:14pm
I lived in rentals and made improvements on it. I once lived in an apartment that didn't have a closet and I installed an inexpensive closer system in a nook of the bedroom that really should have been made into a closet in the first place. When we moved out we weren't asked to take it down. I'm sure someone to this day is using my closet!
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  drunkapemyprettypony
  1/21/14 2:28pm
  What kind of apartment would not have a closet? Tom Cruise does not approve.
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  myprettyponydrunkape
  1/21/14 2:31pm
  I think there might have been a teeny closet that nothing would fit in it. Ahhh, living in NYC.
  
  The funny thing is, we recently moved into our first home and my walk in closet is bigger than my first NYC apartment bedroom. I have a nice sized closet, but I wouldn't say that it's ginormous. It's just that my old bedroom was that small.
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AnalogErikHamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:32pm
I allow my renter(s) to paint. Anything else needs permission. Unfortunately renting to millennials has brought new issues.

Entitlement.

I had to adjust my lease agreements to include renovation specific language because a couple of renters (two in a row, on freaking 12 month leases) tried to do major renovations, and wanted me to pay for it. One wanted "more energy efficient windows", even though the windows were replaced 3 years ago, and are high end. And the other wanted to wall-off the loft-space to make it a full "bedroom" because she didnt like the extra light in the sleeping space. I allowed her to put up a curtain rod and heavy drapes.

The wall-it-off girl had already hired a contractor, then HE got my info and called to authorize the work. I said no. She threatened to sue me. She didnt, and I let her out of her lease early.

Who in their right mind thinks they can make substantial changes to the infrastructure of a space they rent.
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  XX527AnalogErik
  1/21/14 3:56pm
  Oh for fuck's sake, this is not a millenials' entitlement issue. This is people wanting better apartments. I'm sure this has happened before millenials, and it will happen after.
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  YourExFutureWifeAnalogErik
  1/21/14 4:36pm
  I worked with two gentlemen who did the same thing in a different state - they rented an obscenely expensive house, then gutted and completely re-did the landscaping (to the tune of 5 figures out of their own pocket) without ever discussing it with the landlord.
  
  They were shocked - SHOCKED, I tell you! - that the landlord insisted on her old yard being put back before agreeing not to sue them for damages.
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JennifartHamilton Nolan
1/21/14 2:17pm
If I were a renter, I'd probably be tempted to upgrade. Five years is a long time to stay somewhere and have to put up with their basic, crappy, ugly fixtures. Shiny paint. Plastic, hanging globe lights. Giant, unframed mirror in the bathroom with bare lightbulbs across the top. Small, white, metal ceiling fans. Yuck. I wouldn't go nuts, though. I would do just enough to make the place visually palatable.

That said, I'm a landlord and the only things my tenants have ever left me is a hole in a wall and unscrubbed bathtubs.
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  HubcapJennyJennifart
  1/21/14 2:31pm
  I've been in this rented place for 7 or 8 and I'm feeling it bad. But I resolve to fill in any holes and I'm religious about scrubbing the tub (which was already scratched to hell when we got the place).
  
  My remaining question area is the blinds. We have nasty, old, cheap blinds that started falling apart and falling down years ago. I want to put up nice ones for the remainder of our stay and just put these crappy old ones back in before we leave.
  
  Think he'll make us pay for the damage to the old blinds? It's really hard to live somewhere that long without this cheap DIY-stuff falling apart.
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  JennifartHubcapJenny
  1/21/14 2:41pm
  Not likely. We used to have cheap blinds up and we knew we'd have to replace them pretty much any time someone moved out. Those things don't hold up well and we considered it normal wear and tear. Then we finally got plantation blinds put on and if they managed to break those, I'd make a case that it was unusual wear. I think you'll be okay. What does your lease say about wear and tear? Also, we have our tenants responsible for repairs less than $100 in the house, but if they call the property manager before seeking a repair that's less than $100 (just so we have price control; my husband is a contractor, so he typically will fix it for them) we cover it because we're not assholes.
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