Kinja reply list

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BigSteveCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:26am
Cord, I think you are looking at this all wrong. As a person of color, you have become too immersed in racism and the discourse around it to be really objective about this. I think my perspective might be better. I am a white male and therefore not subject to racism, generally, but I know it when I see it. Have you studied the etymology of thug? Have you placed yourself inside the mind of a white person, whose intuitions about race are pretty much the most empirical and fact based evidence there is?

I am sorry. This is not racist because I said so, and because I am not racist and I just don't like this guy. Your experience and perspective would suggest that my experience as a white person does not make me an authority on what is racism and what is not. I reject that. I find my opinions, which I have on just about everything, to be solid and legitimate. It is time for black people to let white people decide what is racism. We perfected it, therefore we should be arbiters of just what it is.
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  Beatrix PotterBigSteve
  1/23/14 10:46am
  
  I'm settling in for when this one really blows up.
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  potassiumtabletsBigSteve
  1/23/14 10:52am
  Almost had me... I read the comment before the commentor name. Nice one.
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NefertittiesCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:28am
I'm completely with you up to a certain point. Calling Tiger Woods "sullen, arrogant and classless" when he is showing poor sportsmanship is entirely appropriate. He is arrogant. Lance Armstrong was called much worse than that. Serena Williams should have been called out for her poor sportsmanship and calling her bitter, belligerent and discourteous over her outburst was also fine. All without skin color connotations. John McEnroe was eviscerated in the media for his poor behavior. As was Andre Agassi. I love when you weigh in on these things, Cord. But be careful not to be disCordant just for the sake of it. You're certainly on point regarding thug, though. It has no place in sports commentary or anywhere else that it only seems to be applied to black people. It connotes criminality period.
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  PrayForDentonNefertitties
  1/23/14 10:36am
  Yeah, I completely agree with the this article, but it was starting to sound like that you can't call out a black person for poor behavior without touching the racial third rail.
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  L Ron FlubbardNefertitties
  1/23/14 10:48am
  You said this so much more eloquently than I could have.
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casenCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:16am
I must be out of touch. I never would've thought "thug" implied the person was black. When I think thug, my first thought is some big meanie (bully?) who could be any race. A Mafia thug, for example (muscle for a mobster). A Union thug (bullies others into joining a union). Neither of whom necessarily has to be black.
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  praunfusackcasen
  1/23/14 10:24am
  Don't feel bad, I hadn't realized this either. And here I was referring to Chris Christie as a "thug" for years now.
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  Count Smorkulacasen
  1/23/14 10:24am
  You are indeed out of touch. It's the new code language.
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ranooshCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:45am
He is not a thug. He was emotional after the game. But, he has no class and has anger issues. And that has nothing to do with race. It has to do with good sportsmanship. Who else is on his team?? Oh yeah that's right, we don't know, because here we are 5 days later only talking about him.
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  housewiferanoosh
  1/23/14 11:00am
  SEriously? He has anger issues? I must have anger issues then.
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  Cherith Cutestoryranoosh
  1/23/14 11:11am
  I'm sorry sportsmanship in a game where people routinely give each other concussions ?
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sizor_sisterCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:14am
Just to reflect upon etymology, these were the original "thugs:"

The term originated from a Hindi/Marathi word (thuggee) for thief and was applied to a supposed cult that ran around robbing and murdering people in India during British colonization. There is some debate as to the authenticity of the British claims about the "Thuggee Cult" and the extent to which they were true. Just interesting to note the original racialized usage of "thug."
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  Fleur-de-litsizor_sister
  1/23/14 10:51am
  Off factoid: Thuggees only attacked other Indians because they believed that Kali didn't crave the blood of foreigners. In fact, they thought such an offering would offend her.
  
  I've always wondered if that was true, or just a convenient way to explain the lack of attacks against foreigners. If the cult didn't exist and were just robbers, they may have targeted their compatriots because the British weren't exactly known for measured responses to attacks against their officials at the time.
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  Cherith Cutestorysizor_sister
  1/23/14 11:08am
  And to be clear and highlight a point you made, the concept of violence and violation has always been part of the word usage. It isn't just that they robbed but also the strangulation.
  
  A thug is violent. A thug is a threat to your safety. A thug will do horrible things for their own means. It has always been part of the connotation.
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apogee17Cord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:08am
"Thug," right along with "states' rights."
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  AliHajiSheikapogee17
  1/23/14 10:25am
  It was always about states rights, from the civil war to what you call racism remains an issue of states rights to this day. The states have always wanted the right to dictate their own policy as regards thugs. Whether thugs can vote, whether thugs can go to school, if thugs drink from the same fountain, whether they should be forced to serve thugs food in public and whether thugmasters can profit off the free labor of thugs. What is so hard to understand about that?
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  MamaMiaItsaMeaAliHajiSheik
  1/23/14 10:33am
  Your comment is not the kind of comment you can stop reading after the first two sentences.
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cmjmCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:53am
See, I didn't think he was a thug, I just thought he was rather angry for someone who'd just won the game.
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  MizJenkinscmjm
  1/23/14 12:35pm
  You must have missed the part where someone from the other team mushed him in the face mask just before the interview. He was coming down from trying not to engage in a fight.
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  cmjmMizJenkins
  1/23/14 12:46pm
  You mean the part after he ran over and slapped Crabtree on the ass? Nope, didn't miss it.
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ThegalinredCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:18am
to be fair, John McEnroe was considered a thug and an ass when he was playing. People did not like him or his behavior, particularly because he was in a sport where you were suppose to wear white, follow the rules and behave yourself. Tennis gave off the vibe of being a gentleman's game prior to McEnroe. Even today tennis has that rep, despite having a number of players who have similar styled meltdowns, somehow that is a bit more acceptable on the court now, thanks to McEnroe. So to say that he was LESS thuggish at the time would be incorrect. FANS of tennis at the time were appalled by his behavior back then.

Also the etemology of the word thug is quite interesting.
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  Jeff BercoviciThegalinred
  1/23/14 10:47am
  Agreed. It's hard to lump tennis (and golf) in with football and basketball. Notions of decorum and gentility are central to tennis's idea of itself as a sport. That's probably not quite as true as it used to be, but it's still true. For instance, Novak Djokovic took heat early in his career for disregarding niceties like the tradition that says a player should apologize when he wins a point on a net-cord fluke. Now that he's part of the tennis establishment, he takes pains to observe all the courtesies. Obviously anyone who calls a black player a "ghetto thug" is guilty of racism, but accusations of classlessness are a bit different. They probably belong to a bigger discussion about how the ideal of sportsmanship is used to police distinctions of class and privilege, particularly in "country club" sports.
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  kumfinemyyJeff Bercovici
  1/23/14 10:57am
  Redacted.
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tektwoCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:15am
I was under the impression that "thug" as it is employed in its modern usage was derived from hip hop and rap? Thug used to identify strongmen and people who violate the public trust, only recently has it come to be associated with common criminals and tough speaking people?

I learned English and American culture late, that is just my impression of the word and my exposure to it.
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  unctuousannietektwo
  1/23/14 10:19am
  Generally, when I think of "thug," I think it just means "bully," but the first thing I pictured when reading this was Tupac's "Thug Life" tattoo.
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  tektwounctuousannie
  1/23/14 10:21am
  My first exposure to the word was from hip-hop, I used to think they were saying "rug" and I could not understand the point.
  
  Picture a bunch of Swiss kids trying to figure out why rappers seemed to love rugs, it was pretty funny.
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mymomsawmyjunkCord Jefferson
1/23/14 10:16am
I made it through a whole day yesterday without having to hear about this dbag, it was wonderful. Interesting to see how every article lately has been defending him and making him out to be the victim in this after he went on a classless and unsportsmanlike in the emotional moments after a big win. But that's all it was, time to move on.
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  BigStevemymomsawmyjunk
  1/23/14 10:28am
  Glad you're okay. Hang in there. This race this thin will blow over.
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